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Post by ryndell on Jul 1, 2005 13:54:51 GMT -8
Feel Free to test my Knowledge of laws in the bible, but know this i take the laws of the bible as they are .. not how they can be interpited.
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Post by photoman on Jul 1, 2005 13:58:33 GMT -8
Start off with an easy one. Deuteronemy 6:8 "And you shall tie them as signs on your arm and they shall be 'totafot' between your eyes" What shall you tie and what are totafot and how are they made?
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Post by Timewarp on Jul 1, 2005 14:16:12 GMT -8
Beating someone to death with rocks isn't immoral? Do you think that killing someone with capital punishment is wrong? Killing someone because they killed another? There is a difference between killing someone through lethal injection, and making their skull cave in with rocks.
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 14:32:00 GMT -8
I'm not going to get involved in this topic. But I do want to thank all of you for keeping this topic civil. Sometimes topics like these turn ugly, and this one hasn't. So thank you, and enjoy Kapt~`'- Aaah, the man with No oppinion! Heya Kapt, Im sure you really want to get your fangs stuck into this thread, so go on! We WANT to hear your oppinions, well, I know I do! Thats correct. That is exactly right. You see, it is only through God's grace that any Christian believes. The Bible makes it pretty clear on the idea of predestination, although, there are still some Christians who will refuse to believe it, and propose that we have absolute freewill. I would encourage anyone to read works on Calvin. Very good reads.
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Post by Member 27 on Jul 1, 2005 14:34:58 GMT -8
Thats correct. That is exactly right. You see, it is only through God's grace that any Christian believes. But what if someone had the same birth defect, and they didn't make it? Does that mean God doesn't love them?
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Post by photoman on Jul 1, 2005 14:37:54 GMT -8
I'm not going to get involved in this topic. But I do want to thank all of you for keeping this topic civil. Sometimes topics like these turn ugly, and this one hasn't. So thank you, and enjoy Kapt~`'- Aaah, the man with No oppinion! Heya Kapt, Im sure you really want to get your fangs stuck into this thread, so go on! We WANT to hear your oppinions, well, I know I do! Thats correct. That is exactly right. You see, it is only through God's grace that any Christian believes. The Bible makes it pretty clear on the idea of predestination, although, there are still some Christians who will refuse to believe it, and propose that we have absolute freewill. I would encourage anyone to read works on Calvin. Very good reads. You are pointing out the seeming problem with predestination and free will. This problem has been dealt with throughout the ages but the consensus is that it cannot be understood by most people. You may say based on that I am going to throw away my belief, but if that is the only thing dissuading you maybe you shouldn't believe in einsteins theory of general relativity just because you don't understand it.
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Post by ryndell on Jul 1, 2005 14:45:18 GMT -8
It would help if you work the correct words with in the passage photoman ... Deuteronomy 6:8 : and Thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine Hand and they shall be a frontlet between thin eyes .As i said ... please quote the bible correctly sorry .This is what Deuteronomy 6:8 Says .
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 14:55:39 GMT -8
You use the word 'seeming' in the context that you think there really is no problem. But then you also realise that it is a problem... (soz, im just nit picking).
The problem has not been 'dealt with', it has been debated and discussed, but not dealt with, since that implies an ending. The consensus really isn't that it cannot be understood by most people, and I do not where you got that idea from. The idea of freewill is claimed by many Christians to be biblical, yet so is predestination, so it takes alot of thinking, and alot of studying. Alot of people would be able to understand the idea if they were not so one sided. It does not even take the use of the Bible to show that we, as humans, do not have 100% freewill. I definately recommend Calvin. Very clear explantions.
Im not quite sure at waht you are getting at next... that you would throw away your belief because you did not understand? Hmmm, if you read my post... I addressed Christians as arguing for free will, therefor im not arguing there faith. Faith is by Grace which is from God. Wel, im not quite into einstien (i probably did not even spell the name right) and as you quite rightly said... its a theory, which means it's not quite fact. Of course I open to science, but I dno believe Science contradicts the Bible, or God.
That's all down to whether God had chosen them or not.
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Post by photoman on Jul 1, 2005 14:57:14 GMT -8
It would help if you work the correct words with in the passage photoman ... Deuteronomy 6:8 : and Thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine Hand and they shall be a frontlet between thin eyes .As i said ... please quote the bible correctly sorry .This is what Deuteronomy 6:8 Says . I am translating from the original language (hebrew) and frontlet is not a very good translation but if that is what you want to use then ok. What does it mean. What does a frontlet look like what is put into it.
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 14:59:05 GMT -8
It would help if you work the correct words with in the passage photoman ... Deuteronomy 6:8 : and Thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine Hand and they shall be a frontlet between thin eyes .As i said ... please quote the bible correctly sorry .This is what Deuteronomy 6:8 Says . Oh dear... looks like we have people arguing over different translations... Well, I can tell you that this is what an ordinary English Bible says: hehe... God Bless. Ryan.
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Post by photoman on Jul 1, 2005 15:02:23 GMT -8
You use the word 'seeming' in the context that you think there really is no problem. But then you also realise that it is a problem... (soz, im just nit picking). The problem has not been 'dealt with', it has been debated and discussed, but not dealt with, since that implies an ending. The consensus really isn't that it cannot be understood by most people, and I do not where you got that idea from. The idea of freewill is claimed by many Christians to be biblical, yet so is predestination, so it takes alot of thinking, and alot of studying. Alot of people would be able to understand the idea if they were not so one sided. It does not even take the use of the Bible to show that we, as humans, do not have 100% freewill. I definately recommend Calvin. Very clear explantions. Im not quite sure at waht you are getting at next... that you would throw away your belief because you did not understand? Hmmm, if you read my post... I addressed Christians as arguing for free will, therefor im not arguing there faith. Faith is by Grace which is from God. Wel, im not quite into einstien (i probably did not even spell the name right) and as you quite rightly said... its a theory, which means it's not quite fact. Of course I open to science, but I dno believe Science contradicts the Bible, or God. That's all down to whether God had chosen them or not. That doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer. Because 2 things seem to contradict say that you really don't have 100% free will. I am not saying from a christian point of view as i am not christian. But from a jewish point of view we say that humans do have 100% free will and that it doesn't contradict in anyway with the fact that god knows what you are going to do before you even have a thought to do it.
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 15:04:07 GMT -8
It would help if you work the correct words with in the passage photoman ... Deuteronomy 6:8 : and Thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine Hand and they shall be a frontlet between thin eyes .As i said ... please quote the bible correctly sorry .This is what Deuteronomy 6:8 Says . I am translating from the original language (hebrew) and frontlet is not a very good translation but if that is what you want to use then ok. What does it mean. What does a frontlet look like what is put into it. To be quite honest Photoman, when I saw Deuteromony... my brain grumbled at me... since I hate going through Deuteronomy and Leviticus... but I went over Chapter 6 (therefore I read the verse you provided in context) and it actually seems to make a bit of sense. Are you sure you do not understand any of this passage>?
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 15:13:40 GMT -8
Firstly, so do alot of Christians (that we have 100% freewill). I will neva use the point that you have have (not really) argued with - That freewill does not contradict God being Omniscient. However, one could say that we do not have 100% freewill by the conditions we are brought up in. Although this can be easily argued... There is one famous case, with 2 teens who killed another Kid. They were to be sentenced to death row. However, Clarence Darrow, defended the teens, and said that their actions were nothing but a result of there environment... which is true to an extent. However, this does not apply to everyone, as individual differences will always play some role.
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Post by ryndell on Jul 1, 2005 15:18:02 GMT -8
nice excuse i will not debate the bible with anyone who can not put passages , they are talking about children families and households.Yes this is it .You can think what you want i take it literally ,by the word of the bible.I quote passages correct though
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Post by Gonubierat on Jul 1, 2005 15:26:43 GMT -8
nice excuse i will not debate the bible with anyone who can not put passages , they are talking about children families and households.Yes this is it .You can think what you want i take it literally ,by the word of the bible.I quote passages correct though Hmmm, Im guessing ure speaking to photoman... and my hunch is that you really do not want to answer the question because you can't? It is really not a hard passage to explain... and I usually strugle with those two books...
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