Video - Mace Windu vs. Palpatine - Who Won?

[ĐR]

Okay so I'm posting the video here for us to all see. This subject has been a big debate over the past couple of years and there are basically two schools of thought on the subject. In Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, Mace Windu and a group of jedi enter Palpatine's (Darth Sidious) chambers to arrest him. A lightsaber duel ensues between Palpatine and Windu. The basic argument is this:

1. Mace Windu defeated Palpatine/Darth Sidious in lightsaber combat straight up.

or

2. Palpatine/Darth Sidious feigned defeat and allowed Windu to think he defeated him.


Now, the question at hand is...which is right? Watch the video again to refresh your memories and tell me what you think.

Please defend your answer.

Note: The question refers to the match up until the point Anakin enters. Obviously, when Anakin enters Palpatine is playing the poor victim "weak" card. I'm referring to the actual lightsaber duel itself here.

[Derek‽]

Mace Windu may have weakened him (which is debatable and unlikely), but he definitely didn't defeat him. It's quite obvious he wanted to play the victim in front of Anakin, being portrayed as frail in order to make the Jedi look evil and vicious. Anakin needed him alive, and Palpatine merely wanted Anakin to "save" him in order to align his loyalty.


</nerd>

[ĐR]

Right, Virus, I agree that Anakin's arrival changed the whole tide of the match. What I'm referring to is the point up until Anakin enters the room. When Windu has him down on the ledge and has disarmed him. Did Palpatine fake that or did Windu beat him?

[Derek‽]

Aug 1, 2008 16:46:05 GMT -8 ĐR said:

Right, Virus, I agree that Anakin's arrival changed the whole tide of the match. What I'm referring to is the point up until Anakin enters the room. When Windu has him down on the ledge and has disarmed him. Did Palpatine fake that or did Windu beat him?

Again, faked. I think someone as strong and in-tune with the Force as Palpatine would be able to sense Anakin coming. Especially considering Anakin would be like a beacon, considering his abilities.


</even nerdier>

[ĐR]

Okay, I see your point. Well defended too.

[JeyDaan]

While I agree that Palpatine would likely be able to sense Anakin coming and play the victim, I still think it's possible that Mace beat him. Palpatine is an amazing lightsaber duelist, but Mace Windu is a master of Form VII, Vaapad, and that allows him to enjoy the fight, taking away much of the limitation that jedi usually have, and he is also considered to be one of, if not the most powerful jedi of his time.

So we have two valid arguments, which makes it pretty hard to say for sure. Unless of course you happen to be George Lucas.

[+ ebonite +]

I agree. Palpatine probably knew that Anakin was going to come into the room, so he faked that Mace had won so when Mace tried to kill him, Anakin would stop him, and Palpatine would kill Mace.

Something like that.

[cisleader]

[blue]Now this is my kind of friggin thread!!!!

Palpatine had Windu pwned, even if Anakin would'v never entered, Palpatine still could'v used force lightning, or in a weird twist of fate, use force push and pushes Windu out the window.[/blue]

[Cain]

Well most of the argument has already been made, but yeah, I think Palpatine let Mace think he beat him. With Anakin sure to come it was really the only way Palpatine could be successful. If Anakin had arrived to see the Chancellor mercilessly throttling a Jedi it may have not gone over very well. Palpatine knew that he had to play the victim here and he did.

[Manda]

He makes him think he beat him totally...if windu did beat him then he would have been dead.

[EliteDForce]

He played Anakin like a fiddle, even before he came in.

[Cameron Stone]

Beat him, straight up. Palpatine knew just as much as anyone else that there was still some good in Anakin, so he wouldn't be completely sure Anakin was coming back. Windu defeated him before Anakin arrived. Also, since I follow all kinds of Star Wars canon, Mace Windu is the best lightsaber duelist in the order at that particular point in time, as well as the best in the last couple thousand years. His Vaapad form is what truly makes me think that he won, as he can use the dark and light sides at the same time, channelling the energies of both in battle, meaning he was feeding off of his own light, as well as the aura of darkness Palpatine had summoned.

Mace Windu did win that battle. He is a better lightsaber duelist than Yoda, which is another reason Yoda couldn't defeat Palpatine. Palpatine could match Yoda in force power, and Yoda couldn't counteract that with superior saber skills.