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Post by daniel on Nov 28, 2014 10:03:35 GMT -8
Does no one TEACH the cops the easiest way to stop someone charging you is a shot to the knee. You can't run with shattered knee caps. One NON-Fatal way of disabling someone. Or yanno tase the punk < again non-lethal. That's not a good strategy except maybe in movies. It's way harder to hit a limb, on purpose, than it is to hit center-mass. In a life or death situation, to protect your own life or that of others, you would aim for the body. If the other person is charging you or has a weapon, you go for what is most likely to keep you alive. A shot to the head or limbs is way more likely to miss. A shoulder or thigh shot probably won't stop them with one hit. The least bad option is to aim for chest area. It's the easiest to hit and usually has the best chance of stopping their attack. ^ I say this as someone who thinks that police are way out of hand in the use of force in our country. I think many deaths and injuries could be avoid with some common sense and use of better tactics. But, in the case of a 290lb man charging you after having already tried taking your gun, a taser is probably not the best option.
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Post by Boy_Wonder on Nov 28, 2014 10:21:58 GMT -8
Does no one TEACH the cops the easiest way to stop someone charging you is a shot to the knee. You can't run with shattered knee caps. One NON-Fatal way of disabling someone. Or yanno tase the punk < again non-lethal. That's not a good strategy except maybe in movies. It's way harder to hit a limb, on purpose, than it is to hit center-mass. In a life or death situation, to protect your own life or that of others, you would aim for the body. If the other person is charging you or has a weapon, you go for what is most likely to keep you alive. A shot to the head or limbs is way more likely to miss. A shoulder or thigh shot probably won't stop them with one hit. The least bad option is to aim for chest area. It's the easiest to hit and usually has the best chance of stopping their attack. ^ I say this as someone who thinks that police are way out of hand in the use of force in our country. I think many deaths and injuries could be avoid with some common sense and use of better tactics. But, in the case of a 290lb man charging you after having already tried taking your gun, a taser is probably not the best option. So uh...guy charging me. I have a car. Was there something wrong with returning to car and locking yourself in and awaiting for back up? Making sure windows are wound up to the point you can still communicate but not have someone reach in
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Chris
"Now if you'll excuse me, my chickens have some subponeas to serve."
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Post by Chris on Nov 28, 2014 11:07:34 GMT -8
That's not a good strategy except maybe in movies. It's way harder to hit a limb, on purpose, than it is to hit center-mass. In a life or death situation, to protect your own life or that of others, you would aim for the body. If the other person is charging you or has a weapon, you go for what is most likely to keep you alive. A shot to the head or limbs is way more likely to miss. A shoulder or thigh shot probably won't stop them with one hit. The least bad option is to aim for chest area. It's the easiest to hit and usually has the best chance of stopping their attack. ^ I say this as someone who thinks that police are way out of hand in the use of force in our country. I think many deaths and injuries could be avoid with some common sense and use of better tactics. But, in the case of a 290lb man charging you after having already tried taking your gun, a taser is probably not the best option. So uh...guy charging me. I have a car. Was there something wrong with returning to car and locking yourself in and awaiting for back up? Making sure windows are wound up to the point you can still communicate but not have someone reach in With that much adrenaline pumping at that point, I very highly doubt there was that much thought process going on
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Post by daniel on Nov 28, 2014 11:38:41 GMT -8
So uh...guy charging me. I have a car. Was there something wrong with returning to car and locking yourself in and awaiting for back up? Making sure windows are wound up to the point you can still communicate but not have someone reach in As a civilian- sure, do that. A police officer has a duty to ensure the public isn't in danger. After such a violent encounter at the car, there's the potential for others to get hurt, for him to go for a weapon, take a hostage, etc.
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The only people who don't make mistakes are those who aren't doing anything.
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 28, 2014 11:42:45 GMT -8
Additionally, by the time the shooting occurred I don't think they were that close to the car anymore. I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on a charging, angry person to get to my car hoping to get it locked before the person got there. Just because he hadn't used a weapon yet, and I hadn't seen a weapon yet, doesn't mean he doesn't have one - or, that his friend doesn't have one.
This is a complex case in so many ways. We have no clue what happened. The grand jury had the evidence. We don't. All we can do, really, is surmise.
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ashycat!
Probably playing in Illustrator.
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adampiro
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Post by ashycat! on Nov 28, 2014 13:23:01 GMT -8
Additionally, by the time the shooting occurred I don't think they were that close to the car anymore. I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on a charging, angry person to get to my car hoping to get it locked before the person got there. Just because he hadn't used a weapon yet, and I hadn't seen a weapon yet, doesn't mean he doesn't have one - or, that his friend doesn't have one. This is a complex case in so many ways. We have no clue what happened. The grand jury had the evidence. We don't. All we can do, really, is surmise. Most of the evidence files were released to the public by the newyorktimes. I'd link, but there is various images of the scene itself which includes blood.
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RedBassett
I'm a Marxist/Lennonist of the Groucho/John variety.
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applecomputer
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Post by RedBassett on Nov 28, 2014 13:26:26 GMT -8
The ME said he landed face down, so there is also the possibility that he was shot as he was falling down, not charging. Problem is, witnesses go both ways. As I pointed out. Many witnesses defending Brown later recanted their stories as lies. Wilson said he was beaten close to blacking out, and yet he is shown hours later with very minor bruising and scratches. And we can only discredit pro-Brown witnesses? The ME didn't even take photographs themselves and incorrectly identified gunshot stippling. The prosecutor has a history of supporting the police in officer-related shootings, and even noted himself how well he got along with the Ferguson police department. I think both sides have plenty of inconsistencies, however we have gone to great lengths to discredit pro-Brown witnesses while ignoring issues in the defense. As for the thread topic, on point tweets:
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Post by daniel on Nov 28, 2014 13:38:06 GMT -8
My issue with rioting is that it destroys the property of random, and usually innocent, people. Often the property is owned by neighbors of the rioters- it's the community literally tearing itself apart. There are channels for anger. Maybe peacefully protest without destroying stuff. Crazy idea.
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Post by Former Member on Nov 28, 2014 14:41:17 GMT -8
So lets say I was a cop. (in no way am I racist, because colour means nothing to me at all) a burglary was in progress, I pull up, but the owner, nor employees called it in. But the suspect which is black has the goods. I try to get ahold of him, it goes wrong. He fights me off, he is beating on me I pull out my gun and shoot him. Not my intention to kill, but force was needed. Guy is laying on the ground dead. Now, if you were outside looking in, what would you see it as? Racism? Or?? Do you think he'd have been shot if he was white? Really? Multiple times, whilst on the floor with his hands up? Yes. And if I was the cop, I would have done the same thing.
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mmhmm
The only people who don't make mistakes are those who aren't doing anything.
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 28, 2014 15:52:50 GMT -8
Additionally, by the time the shooting occurred I don't think they were that close to the car anymore. I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on a charging, angry person to get to my car hoping to get it locked before the person got there. Just because he hadn't used a weapon yet, and I hadn't seen a weapon yet, doesn't mean he doesn't have one - or, that his friend doesn't have one. This is a complex case in so many ways. We have no clue what happened. The grand jury had the evidence. We don't. All we can do, really, is surmise. Most of the evidence files were released to the public by the newyorktimes. I'd link, but there is various images of the scene itself which includes blood. I'll try to get time to go through those, Ashy. Thanks.
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I r teh n00b eater!
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Post by Hero on Nov 28, 2014 16:17:34 GMT -8
I think my biggest problem with this whole thing isn't that it seems like everyone has to take a side - you're either for Wilson, or you're for Brown. Everyone is making it out to be this black and white thing (in every sense of the meaning). What if I don't think either of them deserves my support? If I support Brown, I'm supporting a criminal who robbed a convenience store and manhandled the owner. I'm supporting a side that has it's fair share of peaceful protestors (like his father), but also has quite a few not-so-peaceful ones (like his step father who's been caught on video saying "Burn This B*** Down" and literally inciting a riot). I'm supporting a group of people who think burning down multiple stores and putting people out of their jobs (even if it's potentially temporary) is acceptable. If I support Wilson, I'm supporting a cop who has no real way of proving that his testimony is the way things went down (although the autopsy supports it) and is being supported by the KKK. In this case, I don't think either side deserves my "support".
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Post by Former Member on Nov 28, 2014 17:11:17 GMT -8
I think my biggest problem with this whole thing isn't that it seems like everyone has to take a side - you're either for Wilson, or you're for Brown. Everyone is making it out to be this black and white thing (in every sense of the meaning). What if I don't think either of them deserves my support? If I support Brown, I'm supporting a criminal who robbed a convenience store and manhandled the owner. I'm supporting a side that has it's fair share of peaceful protestors (like his father), but also has quite a few not-so-peaceful ones (like his step father who's been caught on video saying "Burn This B*** Down" and literally inciting a riot). I'm supporting a group of people who think burning down multiple stores and putting people out of their jobs (even if it's potentially temporary) is acceptable. If I support Wilson, I'm supporting a cop who has no real way of proving that his testimony is the way things went down (although the autopsy supports it) and is being supported by the KKK. In this case, I don't think either side deserves my "support". How can there be links to the KKK? When there ARE police that are black doing their jobs. Especially during these riots. Sense is not made.
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mmhmm
The only people who don't make mistakes are those who aren't doing anything.
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 28, 2014 17:21:04 GMT -8
I think my biggest problem with this whole thing isn't that it seems like everyone has to take a side - you're either for Wilson, or you're for Brown. Everyone is making it out to be this black and white thing (in every sense of the meaning). What if I don't think either of them deserves my support? If I support Brown, I'm supporting a criminal who robbed a convenience store and manhandled the owner. I'm supporting a side that has it's fair share of peaceful protestors (like his father), but also has quite a few not-so-peaceful ones (like his step father who's been caught on video saying "Burn This B*** Down" and literally inciting a riot). I'm supporting a group of people who think burning down multiple stores and putting people out of their jobs (even if it's potentially temporary) is acceptable. If I support Wilson, I'm supporting a cop who has no real way of proving that his testimony is the way things went down (although the autopsy supports it) and is being supported by the KKK. In this case, I don't think either side deserves my "support". How can there be links to the KKK? When there ARE police that are black doing their jobs. Especially during these riots. Sense is not made. The KKK has never been known to make sense.
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Coffee whisky bacon OMENTUM???
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Post by Coffee whisky bacon OMENTUM??? on Nov 28, 2014 17:29:01 GMT -8
My issue with rioting is that it destroys the property of random, and usually innocent, people. Often the property is owned by neighbors of the rioters- it's the community literally tearing itself apart. There are channels for anger. Maybe peacefully protest without destroying stuff. Crazy idea. Meh...I'd like to think this would work, but I can't remember seeing near 24/7 coverage of any peaceful protests. Still barely even know what the whole Occupy nonsense was as "peaceful" as it was. But this,....it does seem to be working. It's gotten the attention of Americans regarding police brutality. I think it's great that people are fired up about it and want something done about it...it's a good cause, but they're using the wrong case (Mike Brown)...it seems like the Tamir Rice case from Cleveland would have been much more, err, "protestable"/"riotable" than some thug robbing a store, charging a cop then getting shot. But...as Green Day put it: Don't want to be an American idiot. One nation controlled by the media. Information age of hysteria. It's calling out to idiot America.
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User 180565 is taking donation
I forgot you were a person
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Post by User 180565 is taking donation on Nov 28, 2014 17:52:56 GMT -8
I want to post Dave Chappelles KKK skit but I'd get in trouble.
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