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User 180565 is taking donation
I forgot you were a person
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Post by User 180565 is taking donation on Aug 3, 2019 17:24:57 GMT -8
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Passionate Peruser of Prose
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📚 Dianne 📚
"Never Judge A Book By Its Movie"
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Post by 📚 Dianne 📚 on Aug 4, 2019 4:50:08 GMT -8
And yet another one in Dayton, Ohio. I hate to say this, but I think I'm just numb to it, I can't seem to care anymore. I haven't been able to since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting. What I will say is that I don't like how everything is going and that this is going to be yet another racial issue instead of just a plain nut-job intent on slaughtering as many (of any color or race) as he could in as short a time as possible.
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The Grumpy One
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Graham
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Post by Graham on Aug 4, 2019 8:59:12 GMT -8
Stop bloody shooting everyone, you stupid country.
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Derek‽
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Post by Derek‽ on Aug 4, 2019 13:23:21 GMT -8
And yet another one in Dayton, Ohio. I hate to say this, but I think I'm just numb to it, I can't seem to care anymore. I haven't been able to since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting. Christ, that was fun news to wake up to. Well, it’ll give the local news something new to obsess about for the next couple of months, seeing as the Memorial Day tornadoes were becoming a bit stale. I have to agree about being beyond caring at this point. It’s starting to feel a bit like The Frighteners: unless the shooter broke the previous record with sheer numbers or dastardliness, it barely registers on my radar. There aren’t enough hours in the day to devote to this sort of thing anymore. I’m curious as to whether or not this will have any effect on the yet-to-be-scheduled state bill that seeks to eliminate permits, classes, and the need to disclose to police the presence of a concealed firearm. Granted, this guy was wielding a rifle and wearing body armor, but these things have a way of affecting all firearm policies. The (white) El Paso shooter told authorities he wanted to kill as many Mexicans as possible. That is racial. He might be nuts, and the victims might have ended up being multicultural/multiracial, but he was specifically targeting Hispanics. He didn’t drive ten hours to shoot just anyone, he picked a border town for a reason. The (also white) Dayton shooter’s victims were mostly black, but I don’t yet see any indication of racial motivation. The fact that he killed his sister during the attack suggests to me she might have represented something he was targeting. What that might be, I haven’t a clue.
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Artemis
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Post by Artemis on Aug 4, 2019 14:48:09 GMT -8
This is the third major one this week, I think? It's become difficult to keep track because so many are happening. It's heartbreaking. And it's crazy to think that we can have 29 people killed within 24 hours and barely feel anything from it because it seems to happen so often. Just goes to show anything can be normalized to some degree I suppose. Though I will say that as times goes on I feel frustration more than anything else, and that only grows, because I know that no matter how many times this happens we won't do anything about it. That's the worst part. Nothing will change. It's time for another one of these.
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Ameline
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Post by Ameline on Aug 4, 2019 20:24:41 GMT -8
It's sad to think more people seem to die from getting shot then illness. Should we start having metal detectors and police at every door?
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📚 Dianne 📚
"Never Judge A Book By Its Movie"
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Post by 📚 Dianne 📚 on Aug 5, 2019 3:46:02 GMT -8
And yet another one in Dayton, Ohio. I hate to say this, but I think I'm just numb to it, I can't seem to care anymore. I haven't been able to since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting. Christ, that was fun news to wake up to. Well, it’ll give the local news something new to obsess about for the next couple of months, seeing as the Memorial Day tornadoes were becoming a bit stale. I have to agree about being beyond caring at this point. It’s starting to feel a bit like The Frighteners: unless the shooter broke the previous record with sheer numbers or dastardliness, it barely registers on my radar. There aren’t enough hours in the day to devote to this sort of thing anymore. I’m curious as to whether or not this will have any effect on the yet-to-be-scheduled state bill that seeks to eliminate permits, classes, and the need to disclose to police the presence of a concealed firearm. Granted, this guy was wielding a rifle and wearing body armor, but these things have a way of affecting all firearm policies. The (white) El Paso shooter told authorities he wanted to kill as many Mexicans as possible. That is racial. He might be nuts, and the victims might have ended up being multicultural/multiracial, but he was specifically targeting Hispanics. He didn’t drive ten hours to shoot just anyone, he picked a border town for a reason. The (also white) Dayton shooter’s victims were mostly black, but I don’t yet see any indication of racial motivation. The fact that he killed his sister during the attack suggests to me she might have represented something he was targeting. What that might be, I haven’t a clue. You're right about the El Paso shooter -I hadn't yet read up on it enough. Like I said I just can't seem to bring myself to get emotional about it anymore. I do love how everyone is shouting for politicians to "do" something. What do you think politicians can really do about situations like this?
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Aug 5, 2019 5:39:53 GMT -8
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Passionate Peruser of Prose
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📚 Dianne 📚
"Never Judge A Book By Its Movie"
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Post by 📚 Dianne 📚 on Aug 5, 2019 6:34:18 GMT -8
Sorry, but just about anything he says/does can be taken out of context by anyone who dislikes him and/or Republicans. I use ad-blocker so I couldn't read the article, but I've seen enough liberal writings to judge a piece just by the headlines. Edited to add - I can say that I am a "good and moral" person and I support our President. Period. Do I let myself be swayed by his rhetoric? No. Can "any good and moral person" have supported a president like Clinton? Yes a lot of people did. Both sides have its good and bad. Trump may have no class, and speak before thinking, but he is a business man not a politician first and foremost. However, he did not force a gun into the hands of that killer, make him drive several hours to this Walmart, and shoot these people. Mental illness is the most likely scenario. Or at least that is what the lawyers are going to call it.
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HA HA HA HA!
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Inkjet
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Post by Inkjet on Aug 5, 2019 12:49:31 GMT -8
While both sides are debating and pointing fingers at the cause of mass shootings, it is worth looking at the facts. Mass shootings actually result in fewer gun deaths than suicide or murder by gun. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081It’ll always amaze me at how quickly we are to blame a politician or political party when incidents like these come about. Why are we not questioning the individuals mental status? Why aren’t we trying to understand WHY these events occur and how we could help curb them in the future. Sure, for some it’s fun to say that more laws on guns will do the trick. But what if we looked the other direction, and considered asking ourselves, if this person was mentally unstable, why didn’t we do anything to curb the individuals mental state? Why is health care as it relates to mental illness so god damn expensive? The issue isn’t guns or gun control. The issue is the individual. It's sad to think more people seem to die from getting shot then illness. Should we start having metal detectors and police at every door? I sure hope you don’t think more people die in mass shootings than illness (unless you meant in general. Then my bad!) In 2018 alone, there were over an estimated 600,000 cancer deaths alone. www.cancer.org/research/cancer-facts-statistics/all-cancer-facts-figures/cancer-facts-figures-2018.html
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Aug 5, 2019 14:52:06 GMT -8
Sorry, but just about anything he says/does can be taken out of context by anyone who dislikes him and/or Republicans. I use ad-blocker so I couldn't read the article, but I've seen enough liberal writings to judge a piece just by the headlines. Edited to add - I can say that I am a "good and moral" person and I support our President. Period. Do I let myself be swayed by his rhetoric? No. Can "any good and moral person" have supported a president like Clinton? Yes a lot of people did. Both sides have its good and bad. Trump may have no class, and speak before thinking, but he is a business man not a politician first and foremost. However, he did not force a gun into the hands of that killer, make him drive several hours to this Walmart, and shoot these people. Mental illness is the most likely scenario. Or at least that is what the lawyers are going to call it. Now that is an impressively lackluster excuse for acceptance of the status quo. You've made it sound like there's absolutely no possible way in which he could change his rhetoric so as not to inspire the wrong types of people to take racially motivated action on such a frequent basis. How else are you supposed to interpret the term "invasion" when he describes immigrants approaching the border? There's no misconstruing that.
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Artemis
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Post by Artemis on Aug 5, 2019 14:56:19 GMT -8
While both sides are debating and pointing fingers at the cause of mass shootings, it is worth looking at the facts. Mass shootings actually result in fewer gun deaths than suicide or murder by gun. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081It’ll always amaze me at how quickly we are to blame a politician or political party when incidents like these come about. Why are we not questioning the individuals mental status? Why aren’t we trying to understand WHY these events occur and how we could help curb them in the future. Sure, for some it’s fun to say that more laws on guns will do the trick. But what if we looked the other direction, and considered asking ourselves, if this person was mentally unstable, why didn’t we do anything to curb the individuals mental state? Why is health care as it relates to mental illness so god damn expensive? The issue isn’t guns or gun control. The issue is the individual. whynotboth.jpg I'm not exactly opposed to what you're saying but it's also frustrating when people try to say what this isn't before we've even had a chance to find out. Because we haven't really had an opportunity to try or even research many solutions. Because gun rights are a sensitive issue, we aren't even allowed to talk about solutions because some people interpret that as an attack on their rights. The problem is such that people even try to block research into it. I personally get frustrated by claims about mental health and other factors because historically they have been used as distractions. "Guns don't play any role whatsoever, the shooters were probably just crazy or something, anyway moving on." And the thing is, even though mental health is often cited as a possibility, it's not like we do anything about that, either. There aren't any huge movements to make healthcare more accessible or to study what's going on with each shooter (because again, research funding for anything about guns is cut massively). So sure, it's very possible that could play a role, but a) we don't do anything about it even if it were, and b) it's so often used as an excuse so we don't have to talk about guns instead. We cannot take anything off the table before we've even had a chance for a real discussion here, especially when you're talking about anything involving the weapon itself or the laws surrounding it, which seems a little irresponsible in a country where there are tens of millions more guns than there are people.
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HA HA HA HA!
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Inkjet
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Post by Inkjet on Aug 5, 2019 15:22:35 GMT -8
While both sides are debating and pointing fingers at the cause of mass shootings, it is worth looking at the facts. Mass shootings actually result in fewer gun deaths than suicide or murder by gun. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081It’ll always amaze me at how quickly we are to blame a politician or political party when incidents like these come about. Why are we not questioning the individuals mental status? Why aren’t we trying to understand WHY these events occur and how we could help curb them in the future. Sure, for some it’s fun to say that more laws on guns will do the trick. But what if we looked the other direction, and considered asking ourselves, if this person was mentally unstable, why didn’t we do anything to curb the individuals mental state? Why is health care as it relates to mental illness so god damn expensive? The issue isn’t guns or gun control. The issue is the individual. whynotboth.jpg I'm not exactly opposed to what you're saying but it's also frustrating when people try to say what this isn't before we've even had a chance to find out. Because we haven't really had an opportunity to try or even research many solutions. Because gun rights are a sensitive issue, we aren't even allowed to talk about solutions because some people interpret that as an attack on their rights. The problem is such that people even try to block research into it. I personally get frustrated by claims about mental health and other factors because historically they have been used as distractions. "Guns don't play any role whatsoever, the shooters were probably just crazy or something, anyway moving on." And the thing is, even though mental health is often cited as a possibility, it's not like we do anything about that, either. There aren't any huge movements to make healthcare more accessible or to study what's going on with each shooter (because again, research funding for anything about guns is cut massively). So sure, it's very possible that could play a role, but a) we don't do anything about it even if it were, and b) it's so often used as an excuse so we don't have to talk about guns instead. We cannot take anything off the table before we've even had a chance for a real discussion here, especially when you're talking about anything involving the weapon itself or the laws surrounding it, which seems a little irresponsible in a country where there are tens of millions more guns than there are people. I think it’d be safe to say that because mental illness (depression, anxiety, etc) are “invisible” illnesses, those that don’t suffer from them are not going to be won over. Without any sort of physical proof (compared to day, a visual bruise), I think trying to prove to those masses that this is in fact a serious issue is quite daunting. But as I mentioned, I don’t believe the issue is guns as a whole. The issue is the instability of the individual(s) involved in creating such attacks. It can’t be argued that a normal sane person would feel like going out one day and just shoot the masses because “it’s fun!” There’s some serious mental building blocks missing in the shooter’s mind and it really is a shame we can’t create affordable mental health care, and of course, just affordable health care in general. Arguably, I’d say both go hand in hand. Mental health = mass shooting issues. The thing that gets me, is that we’re upset about gun control issues when mass shootings happen. But what about places like Chicago where just this weekend, 57 people were shot, 7 fatally? I wonder why we as a nation don’t have more outrage at that nationally? Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll ever see a resolve to the issue at hand. Where there are people, guns, and anger, hate will continue to exist unfortunately.
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Artemis
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Post by Artemis on Aug 5, 2019 16:07:22 GMT -8
whynotboth.jpg I'm not exactly opposed to what you're saying but it's also frustrating when people try to say what this isn't before we've even had a chance to find out. Because we haven't really had an opportunity to try or even research many solutions. Because gun rights are a sensitive issue, we aren't even allowed to talk about solutions because some people interpret that as an attack on their rights. The problem is such that people even try to block research into it. I personally get frustrated by claims about mental health and other factors because historically they have been used as distractions. "Guns don't play any role whatsoever, the shooters were probably just crazy or something, anyway moving on." And the thing is, even though mental health is often cited as a possibility, it's not like we do anything about that, either. There aren't any huge movements to make healthcare more accessible or to study what's going on with each shooter (because again, research funding for anything about guns is cut massively). So sure, it's very possible that could play a role, but a) we don't do anything about it even if it were, and b) it's so often used as an excuse so we don't have to talk about guns instead. We cannot take anything off the table before we've even had a chance for a real discussion here, especially when you're talking about anything involving the weapon itself or the laws surrounding it, which seems a little irresponsible in a country where there are tens of millions more guns than there are people. I think it’d be safe to say that because mental illness (depression, anxiety, etc) are “invisible” illnesses, those that don’t suffer from them are not going to be won over. Without any sort of physical proof (compared to day, a visual bruise), I think trying to prove to those masses that this is in fact a serious issue is quite daunting. But as I mentioned, I don’t believe the issue is guns as a whole. The issue is the instability of the individual(s) involved in creating such attacks. It can’t be argued that a normal sane person would feel like going out one day and just shoot the masses because “it’s fun!” There’s some serious mental building blocks missing in the shooter’s mind and it really is a shame we can’t create affordable mental health care, and of course, just affordable health care in general. Arguably, I’d say both go hand in hand. Mental health = mass shooting issues. The thing that gets me, is that we’re upset about gun control issues when mass shootings happen. But what about places like Chicago where just this weekend, 57 people were shot, 7 fatally? I wonder why we as a nation don’t have more outrage at that nationally? Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll ever see a resolve to the issue at hand. Where there are people, guns, and anger, hate will continue to exist unfortunately. Sure, but even pointing to mental health is very broad, and with that comes the fact that other nations have people with mental illnesses too without the same rates of violence. Can all of that be explained with better access to mental health resources? There are just so many factors it's hard to point to even one broad explanation. Even within mental health we need to ask if a shooter didn't have access, if they did but just didn't use it, if they did use it but it wasn't caught, etc. Then we need to compare all that to the other shooters and the answers for all of them. And no factor exists on its own so maybe we need to also ask if there's an issue with our laws that allows certain people easier access to guns and what those might be, because it must vary with each person. The fact that laws are different in each state complicates things further. Then there's rhetoric and societal factors maybe including not just healthcare but poverty and location and other things, because as much as people like to think language is completely harmless we've seen all sorts of examples of people falling down rabbit holes of hate and fear, and maybe this person wasn't what we think of as mentally ill after all and they were just furious and terrified and driven to action. So we should consider what's driving these people to these horrible actions, because if we can't just explain things like this away with an easy answer like mental illness, we've got some much more serious problems to address. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. All of this being said with the acknowledgement that we're in no way ready to have these discussions as a nation. ;x That's the most frustrating part.
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T.C.
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Post by T.C. on Aug 5, 2019 16:48:49 GMT -8
I knew it wouldn't be long for someone to blame Trump. They've been happening long before he was elected and will sadly continue once he's gone. The media is the industry that beats the horse repeatedly until it dies and continues to do so afterwards. If you want to place blame on someone other than the lunatic who did the shooting, blame the ones who fan the fire!
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