Original Roleplay vs. Canon Roleplay

[viruszero]

Feb 14, 2009 1:10:38 GMT -8 Valyn said:

Clearly in the role playing world cannon is down to being better more popular or just laziness.

Nearly all role plays I come across even the ones that say their original are actually mostly cannon for example nearlly all RPG's I see on proboards are based off books or big online RPG's, video games movies ect very few are actually truely original.

If its not original then its cannon

Me im torn between the two but I do get frustrated when people advertise their so called original ideas 0.o''

Canon isn't necessarily lazier... Sure you are in an established universe, but there is oft plenty of work you can do to make it original. What if plots or filling in loopholes in official works for starters.
Though personally, when I make a canon RP, I absolutely hate people RPing as canon characters... (It bugs me because many times I find people butcher the characters.) So I require original characters, which also adds to the originality of the RP. And for myself, I make up most of the characters I intend to use anyway. (There might be a few characters that I take from the existing universe because they're a key aspect of it. Such as if I'm making a halo RP, then I might have Master Chief appear.)


Besides, even original RP's can be lazily done. Plot half thought out, contradictions abounds, poor moderation and et certera.

Also, if you have an original RP, you still have some setting which imediately informs you as to roughly what it could be about. For example- "An original fantasy/medieval RP."
Very vague and general I know, but even from that you have a rough idea of what to expect. It's not like you expect to see cars flying about, but you might expect to see magic or knights in armor.

As far as being easier, I don't think canon are any easier. If anything they may be harder. Why? Because you are in a situation where the universe exists and you are trying to be part of it. It's not simply the case that every time you can simply go off an do whatever. Say for a canon Halo rp, if you play as a Spartan and run off and join the Covenant. (I'm pretty sure you would not really able to do that in the rp... It might make for an interesting RP if you could though.)

Feb 14, 2009 11:51:08 GMT -8 @fantasmic said:

I don't think it's laziness... Not in like, 99% of the cases. Not everyone who role plays is a story writer, and thus canon ideas come more naturally. It's not lazy so much as playing to your strengths. Some people work better when a foundation is already laid, and they just have to add the bricks to make the building. Personally, I can do both, but I'd rather keep my original ideas for my books. And if I need help, I'll ask an RP friend if they wanna RP a a random scenario on the side. But for sites? I like canon. As someone already said, there's already an established fan base, however big or small, for you to attract members. And I've yet to see any truly "original" sites. The boarding school ones are largely spin offs of Harry Potter without the magic. The private school ones are all practically identical to Gossip Girl. And then there's 8379 million (exaggerating? Just a little) wolf and horse role plays. I've seen more original plots that are canon plot twists than self proclaimed original sites.

Excellent point, it does seem that there are an absurd number of Harry Potter and Twilight RPs out there...

[HoudiniDerek]

I think one thing that I hate about canon roleplays is how people jump on others if they have a main character and do something the other person finds out of character. I think original RPs have it much easier because the characters do not have a history for others to follow in the same manner. Can you imagine the hype and hysterics some forums would have if Harry Potter became a cold-blooded killer?

[viruszero]

Well, I mean some deviation is within limits because one can't perfectly replicate how a character would act, but now on major issues where your keeping to a timeline, then it becomes an issue. Say for example Megaman X is supposed to defeat Sigma (Classic example from gaming. I use this example because it's what I know best.) But the player controlling X has him lose and submit to Sigma. Kinda screws the timeline up to do this, especially if your trying to keep the continuity together. So I can see why someone might be angered by it.

But now, if it's set in an alternate universe, then anything goes as it doesn't affect the main continuity.

[HoudiniDerek]

Feb 14, 2009 20:11:15 GMT -8 viruszero said:

Well, I mean some deviation is within limits because one can't perfectly replicate how a character would act, but now on major issues where your keeping to a timeline, then it becomes an issue. Say for example Megaman X is supposed to defeat Sigma (Classic example from gaming. I use this example because it's what I know best.) But the player controlling X has him lose and submit to Sigma. Kinda screws the timeline up to do this, especially if your trying to keep the continuity together. So I can see why someone might be angered by it.

But now, if it's set in an alternate universe, then anything goes as it doesn't affect the main continuity.

My point exactly. I think most canon RPs tend to limit creativity overall because of the characters already created by another person. A character with no background other than what the author gives it is more free to become anything. I am not saying all canon RPs are like this, but some are.

Personally, I find the alternate universe a cheap way out. Why not have a completely different universe if you don't want to stay in the current one? I have never understood that either.

[viruszero]

For canons... it only limits creativity if you RP as the canon characters. If you RP as original characters in the canon universe then it's not a problem.


As far as the AU idea, it means that you can have the same starting point, but you can do whatever you want with it.
This way you can have the universe but not be limited by the timeline. And it also means that you don't have to make up everything for a universe but you still have alot of room for flexibility. I mean it can get highly intricate when you start developing a universe... leading to almost fanaticism with it. This can become problematic, especially if you factor in the problem of having others sticking to the creators plan and not just take it all over everywhere.

But then again, some might welcome that... I for one do not, I like having a clear and defined start and end point to things. (Even if one work later spawns a second one, as long as it has it's own start and end, it can connect back without issue.)

[HoudiniDerek]

Good point. I was talking more in limits with a canon character in a canon RP. If you have an original character that lives in the realm, that is different and can allow you more freedom, but to me, canon characters are short-lived because they are so one dimensional.

[ToriJ]

Feb 14, 2009 20:00:47 GMT -8 HoudiniDerek said:

I think one thing that I hate about canon roleplays is how people jump on others if they have a main character and do something the other person finds out of character. I think original RPs have it much easier because the characters do not have a history for others to follow in the same manner. Can you imagine the hype and hysterics some forums would have if Harry Potter became a cold-blooded killer?

THIS!

HD just hit the nail on the head in one of the things I find annoying in canon RPs. The moment you want to try to evolve a character from a series/anime/whatever you get yelled at by people who take the canon part way too seriously. I don't agree with calling them canon RPs because even though they're based on another story they cannot be canon because they're fanmade...

I don't think either is better than the others. I went with a RPG, Sailor Moon which is based off a manga and an anime but I tried to make it more unique. I encourage originality among members and I allow people to evolve even the canons they're playing. Our story wanders away from what is usually seen on other Sailor Moon RPGs while still being recognized as a Sailor Moon site and so far it had become popular because of this. I think in the end it goes down on the plot itself. Some canon rps are a little too strict due to the staff members not wanting EVERYTHING to be canon and not wanting to allow any freedom in playing the canons.

[~The Dragon Keeper ~]

In your mind, which one is better?
Canon Roleplays to me are easier to set up as this way members are more familiar with how each character is done. Though I have used original characters before, I have found that more people often stay with the original story lines and characters


Are roleplays with fixed characters, timelines, stories, etc. easier to roleplay than a completely original idea?

Again it all depends on the stories presented as well as with their characters. I like to blend both to give fresh new ideas and to expand on the character's histories that aren't otherwise normally written about.


Are original roleplays easier because it allows more people into the fold without having to be an expert in a certain series of literature, media, etc.?

Originals can have their levels of difficulty as well as I have experienced where roleplayers don't often allow originals into their stories.


If you are an admin of an RP forum, which one did you choose and why?

I chose a canon rp based on it's likeness to the popular magical realm roleplays that are out there. I didn't want to create yet another Harry Potter or Twilight themed one since there are so many out there so I chose the current one that I have now.

[Kami]

Feb 14, 2009 20:45:20 GMT -8 HoudiniDerek said:

Feb 14, 2009 20:11:15 GMT -8 viruszero said:

Well, I mean some deviation is within limits because one can't perfectly replicate how a character would act, but now on major issues where your keeping to a timeline, then it becomes an issue. Say for example Megaman X is supposed to defeat Sigma (Classic example from gaming. I use this example because it's what I know best.) But the player controlling X has him lose and submit to Sigma. Kinda screws the timeline up to do this, especially if your trying to keep the continuity together. So I can see why someone might be angered by it.

But now, if it's set in an alternate universe, then anything goes as it doesn't affect the main continuity.

My point exactly. I think most canon RPs tend to limit creativity overall because of the characters already created by another person. A character with no background other than what the author gives it is more free to become anything. I am not saying all canon RPs are like this, but some are.

Personally, I find the alternate universe a cheap way out. Why not have a completely different universe if you don't want to stay in the current one? I have never understood that either.

I think you miss understand "Alternate Universe" [at least, the way my friends and I use it]. AU is simply if you are dissatisfied -say- with JRK killing off Fred Weasley. If you decide to keep him alive, that would automatically make your forum AU, as it's not strict canon. EG, my Harry Potter forum only follows the series canonically to book six. While we're still in the 'same universe' and the same major events still happen [death of dumbledore, death of sirius black, fall of voldemort], they don't happen how Rowling described it, and there are other non-canon events, making the RP Alternate Universe. It's not that the universe itself has been changed.

Also, on your point in Canons. I've never understood people "jumping" on canon-wannabes [as in potential players] either. The fact remains, however, that there are just some ways a canon character would act, but hopefully, the player is skilled enough to allow that action and that character to mature to fit the plot.

EG, on my Avatar the Last Airbender site, I play a character who is blind. In the show, she's very brash, very outspoken, and acts very manly [for a show based off ancient Asia]. I have her do much of the same, at least, in her public speech and action - however, I was able to break out of the mold of the stereotype of her character, with some very well-thought-out personal reflection and opinions, all spoken in the same voice.

I think, with what you're saying, the biggest problem is when we have a very shy, reserved character suddenly becoming outspoken, friendly with everyone, without any in-character development in that direction.

EDIT: If Harry became a cold blooded killer? I actually think that's an amazing idea.... -steals- xD

[HoudiniDerek]

Kami: I think you might be right to some degree. I have seen people jump on members for canon changes (even in AU forums) for character digression, well thought-out and explained or not. Some times, I agree that it might be too abrupt with no development and it seems counterintuitive to the rest of the forum and the plot.

I do disagree with the concept that there are just ways a canon character would act. Unless you are the author of the series (like Harry Potter for example) you can't know what the character would or would not do. There is no predetermined way they act, especially in an AU world where everything is noticeably different.

You can have it, Kami: I hate Harry Potter so you can make him a cold-blooded killer if you want.

[Kami]

Feb 17, 2009 15:12:55 GMT -8 HoudiniDerek said:

Kami: I think you might be right to some degree. I have seen people jump on members for canon changes (even in AU forums) for character digression, well thought-out and explained or not. Some times, I agree that it might be too abrupt with no development and it seems counterintuitive to the rest of the forum and the plot.

I do disagree with the concept that there are just ways a canon character would act. Unless you are the author of the series (like Harry Potter for example) you can't know what the character would or would not do. There is no predetermined way they act, especially in an AU world where everything is noticeably different.

You can have it, Kami: I hate Harry Potter so you can make him a cold-blooded killer if you want.

Well, no, you can't know everything, but there's just a certain way that they'd probably act, based on past events and actions. EG, say that Homer Simpson is confronted with donuts. It would be a bit out of character for him to say 'No thanks,' and have himself a spinach salad. No, I'm not Matt Groening, but would I have Homer eat those donuts? Yes, I most certainly would. Would I have him eat a salad? Only if he were drastically forced, and even then most likely not.

It's like with your friends, ones that you think you know inside and out - if they do something, you might think, "Hey, that's out of character!" but you are not them, so there's no 'predetermined' way for them to act. The same thing, I think, with RPing a canon - there are just certain events and reactions that make a picture of someone's personality. Another example, Hermione, in the books, is a bookworm, loves school. She let school go due to [1] wanting to help Harry, and [2] Muggle-borns were being weeded out. If I had, say, a future Harry Potter RP, and I were to say that Hermione did -not- go back and finish school, that would be something out of character. I'm not JKR, but it's a general consensus that someone like Hermione would resume studies when she were able.

tl;dr - while we can't say how any character but ones of our own creation would act, we can make educated guesses about what would and would not be in character for them, based on what the creator of the character has given us in the past.

[HoudiniDerek]

I suppose. I guess that is why I prefer an original RP. There is no one who has any idea of which direction my character might go which makes it a lot easier. If I decide that I want to change it, even drastically, I have the ability and it doesn't matter to the overall plot. I think that is why it is hard to be part of some canon-based RPs. People expect that they know what should happen based on those characters that they have read about and they don't do change well, even AU changes. Not all forums do it, but it can be an issue. I think that ultimately decides it for me.

I understand your point about being able to make educated guesses, but I guess I just see it that you can never know people for sure...which is what makes reality fun and fun to RP.

[Short of Daybreak]

Well, there is good you can find in both original and canon. Original is something new, and you can be creative. Canon is something you know, and you can play your favorite character.
So, in some cases, they are equally as good!

[fantasmic]

Feb 14, 2009 19:53:34 GMT -8 viruszero said:

Excellent point, it does seem that there are an absurd number of Harry Potter and Twilight RPs out there...

I meant the spin-offs. I OWN one of those Harry Potter sites, and am an admin on another Twilight site, thank you -_-; And there are a lot worse, in my opinion. I could do without those horse and wolf role plays, personally. I don't see how it could be even moderately entertaining to be a freaking horse, but whatever.

And I don't see anything wrong with playing canons. And if a character is well-developed in a series, you can't say there's no "set" way a person would react. Their personality determines how they react to death, love, enemies and friends. George Weasley wouldn't smack his mother because she didn't like his girlfriend, persay. He'd just remind her in a joking way she hadn't liked Fleur, or something even more amusingly absurd to annoy her further while proving his point. Or he'd let her be. But you see what I mean? There are some things that are just stupidly out of character, and if you've read the series or watched the movie/show enough to want to RP that character, you should have a good idea of their personality and their reactions to some events. I mean, it's hard to get everything spot on. That's why it's RP and we're not helping the authors write the books. But I mean, some things people do really are just stupid.

And it's even possible to mess up with original characters, to counter THAT argument. People who make these bad butt characters that yet give flowers on valentines day and get all mushy over things their personality application section says disgusts them. It's possible to play ANY kind of character poorly. That's why it's called "playing to your strengths" and not claiming a character whose personality you can't get your mind around enough to play around with.

[HoudiniDerek]

I am not saying it is not possible to RP original characters in ways that make no sense. My argument was that canon RPs tend to be less respectful of divergences in a character that they feel they know and love. George Weasley MIGHT smack his mother, depending on the cirucmstance and how it came across. You don't know that for sure. It could have been immediately after Fred's death and it could have come out wrong and he could have smacked her. It is COMPLETELY in character with that concept. As I mentioned in response to Kami, I agree that it needs to be developed and some of that comes from exposition of the character, original or canon RPs, but anything is possible and most canon RPs seem not to believe that.