What makes a forum die?

[mehguy]

forums dont take off because the lack of advertising or just the actual look of the forum.

[mmhmm]

Apr 12, 2015 6:25:59 GMT -8 mehguy said:

forums dont take off because the lack of advertising or just the actual look of the forum.

Both those are part of the reason a forum doesn't get legs. You need to advertise and it helps if you have lined up interested people to participate from the very beginning. Word of mouth is very important! Tag your "real-world" community for interested posters and work on your forum so it presents a pretty face.

The reasons a forum dies, however, are a little different. There can be a number of reasons, and appearance and advertising are still among those - just a bit less important.

[mmhmm]

And no, my forum is not dying. We have thousands of members and a dedicated band of lurkers. After 15 years (8 with ProBoards when our original leader retired) we get new members every week, so we must be doing something right.

You gave me a chuckle with this one, Celeste. Our forum is the same. It's not nearly as old as your forum but we have over 1500 members and add new members weekly. We have very little trouble and our posters enjoy one another and treat one another with respect. We're all pretty happy with the way things work for us. I'm sure you are, as well.

[Celeste]

For the most part, mmhmm, we expect our members to moderate themselves and they do. We admins do what we can to nip any nastiness in the bud, beginning with our own behavior. We treat our members with respect, which specifically includes listening to them. Sometimes people are having a bad day and need a little venting room. Other posters have a specific issue we can address. Occasionally they don't understand the reasoning for our decisions and need to hear the rationale behind it. It is when they don't listen to us in return that we have any problem with them. There is no compromise with them and members' tempers flare.  That's when we have to make a decision for the welfare of the whole community. We have a purpose and want to concentrate on it rather than name-calling.   We are never happy to ban someone, but we will.

kronks, I'm not one of those who thinks the admin is just another member of the group. They can't be. They created the forum in the first place, decided on the topics, decided who has access, designed the boards, and are held accountable by ProBoards to see to it that the forum is in compliance with our host's terms of service. (For that reason alone, I believe it is not a good idea for admins to put members on 'ignore'. Admins can't moderate what they can't see, and a disruptive 'ignored' poster could easily get their forum deleted by ProBoards for TOS violations.  I believe it has already happened.)

I like Boy_Wonder's dinner guests analogy. I'm allowing them in my house/forum to join in the camaraderie and conversation, but if they don't respect my wishes so far as behavior, I will ask them to leave.

@womenonly, that's a good question and related to this one. I think you have to find topics that people want to discuss and keep it fresh. Otherwise people a) don't come to your forum in the first place or b) don't stay.

Okay, that's it. Thanks for reading this long post. I know you won't all agree with me, but that is expected. Operate your forum as you want to run it and the best of luck to you!

[Former Member]

Apr 13, 2015 8:05:58 GMT -8 Celeste said:

For the most part, mmhmm, we expect our members to moderate themselves and they do. We admins do what we can to nip any nastiness in the bud, beginning with our own behavior. We treat our members with respect, which specifically includes listening to them. Sometimes people are having a bad day and need a little venting room. Other posters have a specific issue we can address. Occasionally they don't understand the reasoning for our decisions and need to hear the rationale behind it. It is when they don't listen to us in return that we have any problem with them. There is no compromise with them and members' tempers flare.  That's when we have to make a decision for the welfare of the whole community. We have a purpose and want to concentrate on it rather than name-calling.   We are never happy to ban someone, but we will.

kronks, I'm not one of those who thinks the admin is just another member of the group. They can't be. They created the forum in the first place, decided on the topics, decided who has access, designed the boards, and are held accountable by ProBoards to see to it that the forum is in compliance with our host's terms of service. (For that reason alone, I believe it is not a good idea for admins to put members on 'ignore'. Admins can't moderate what they can't see, and a disruptive 'ignored' poster could easily get their forum deleted by ProBoards for TOS violations.  I believe it has already happened.)

I like Boy_Wonder's dinner guests analogy. I'm allowing them in my house/forum to join in the camaraderie and conversation, but if they don't respect my wishes so far as behavior, I will ask them to leave.

@womenonly, that's a good question and related to this one. I think you have to find topics that people want to discuss and keep it fresh. Otherwise people a) don't come to your forum in the first place or b) don't stay.

Okay, that's it. Thanks for reading this long post. I know you won't all agree with me, but that is expected. Operate your forum as you want to run it and the best of luck to you!

Celeste:

Thank you for your reply.

An adminsitrator's function is not too ignore members.

[kronks]

I don't think much of the default smilies

[kronks]

Apr 13, 2015 8:05:58 GMT -8 Celeste said:

kronks, I'm not one of those who thinks the admin is just another member of the group. They can't be. They created the forum in the first place, decided on the topics, decided who has access, designed the boards, and are held accountable by ProBoards to see to it that the forum is in compliance with our host's terms of service. (For that reason alone, I believe it is not a good idea for admins to put members on 'ignore'. Admins can't moderate what they can't see, and a disruptive 'ignored' poster could easily get their forum deleted by ProBoards for TOS violations.  I believe it has already happened.)

Well obviously they would have to look at reported posts, but if someone is annoy them they can put them on ignore.

And here is one big reason why forums fail.

People do not want to put their life into the hand of another.
 

I don't care if the created the forum, I don't want another person having the power of life and
death over me.

I don't want you have the ability to remove someone I liked from the forum.

People do not like handing control of their life to another anonymous unelected unknown person.

Maybe that is why Facebook is so successful.

No admins or moderators to mess things up, the power rests in the right place, with the individual not the power crazy.

[Celeste]

Apr 13, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

I don't think much of the default smilies

You can always do what the rest of us do... insert our own smilies with the use of the image button. 

Apr 13, 2015 9:15:15 GMT -8 kronks said:

Well obviously they would have to look at reported posts, but if someone is annoy them they can put them on ignore.

But I would have to rely on others to report anything that is against Terms of Service, and they might not bother.  Too risky.  I don't want to lose my forum due to an easily avoidable oversight.

Apr 13, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

And here is one big reason why forums fail.

People do not want to put their life into the hand of another.
 

I don't care if the created the forum, I don't want another person having the power of life and
death over me.

I don't want you have the ability to remove someone I liked from the forum.

People do not like handing control of their life to another anonymous unelected unknown person.

Maybe that is why Facebook is so successful.

No admins or moderators to mess things up, the power rests in the right place, with the individual
not the power crazy.

Fine.  If you don't want to give someone the power to enforce forum rules then you don't have to join.  (But you did.)

Facebook also has the right to delete your account if you break their terms of service.  Did it escape your notice?

BTW, I have a Facebook group page set up and I have the ability to delete posts and ban accounts on that page too. I just don't have the ability to personalize the layout... or change the smilies.

But if you are happy with Facebook, that's great.  Glad you found a place to express yourself that you enjoy using.  To each their own.

[Boy_Wonder]

I would also like to say that no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to join a forum.

In effect a forum you chose to join you've therefore CHOSEN to elect that person as the leader for that forum.

Now if I came around to all the people and held a gun to peoples head "you will join my forum or I will shoot you" in which case you didn't really -have- a choice.

So I don't agree with the idea that you handed control (unwillingly) to an anonymous unelected unknown person.

Heck I've got kudos on one of my sites - as I don't even decide the rules. I may give my own input for certain core parts of the rules but guess who actually decides the rules? Yep that's right once a year the members themselves post on a thread I set up what they want to have as the 'rules'. As the contract they agree to. Why? Because I believe that my members are sensible adults and if they can't stick to the rules they've decided to agree on? Then... well.

[kronks]

Apr 13, 2015 9:47:36 GMT -8 Celeste said:

Apr 13, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

I don't think much of the default smilies

You can always do what the rest of us do... insert our own smilies with the use of the image button. 

Apr 13, 2015 9:15:15 GMT -8 kronks said:

Well obviously they would have to look at reported posts, but if someone is annoy them they can put them on ignore.

But I would have to rely on others to report anything that is against Terms of Service, and they might not bother.  Too risky.  I don't want to lose my forum due to an easily avoidable oversight.

Apr 13, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

And here is one big reason why forums fail.

People do not want to put their life into the hand of another.
 

I don't care if the created the forum, I don't want another person having the power of life and
death over me.

I don't want you have the ability to remove someone I liked from the forum.

People do not like handing control of their life to another anonymous unelected unknown person.

Maybe that is why Facebook is so successful.

No admins or moderators to mess things up, the power rests in the right place, with the individual
not the power crazy.

Fine.  If you don't want to give someone the power to enforce forum rules then you don't have to join.  (But you did.)

Facebook also has the right to delete your account if you break their terms of service.  Did it escape your notice?

BTW, I have a Facebook group page set up and I have the ability to delete posts and ban accounts on that page too. I just don't have the ability to personalize the layout... or change the smilies.

But if you are happy with Facebook, that's great.  Glad you found a place to express yourself that you enjoy using.  To each their own.

1. Smilies solution is sub optimal

2. If they have a problem they should report to you first not proboards.

3. I am not representative of everyone, anecdotal evidence is not good science.

4. I don't use facebook.  It is very rare facebook would close an account, it would require something pretty serious,
    they know if they start banning people willy nilly they will go out of business.

[blc]

Apr 10, 2015 8:46:17 GMT -8 mmhmm said:

Apr 10, 2015 7:32:47 GMT -8 @apple1 said:

I think signatures should be kept small, I have seen some people advertising their own forums in their signatures on forums other than their own, and the advertisements are H U G E.  I would not let that fly.

You do have me wondering about blocking avatars though, most of the people on my board are visual types and we have large avatars, I have only ever had one complaint about the size of the avatars. I wonder, why would it bother people?

We've got rules on our board to cover this sort of thing. Our posters have been very cooperative with removing overly large signatures and signatures that are distracting/irritating to other posters. As to avatars, we have added the ability to selectively block offensive avatars. It's something the posters really do appreciate.

I don't care for huge ones either. I have seen a site shrink them so small they are about half the size of the 88x31, standard affilate image. That is pathetically small! lmao

[Celeste]

Apr 13, 2015 11:12:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

1. Smilies solution is sub optimal

Using the 'insert image' button is what you can use on everyone else's forum.  For your own forum you can can upload an emoticon set you prefer.  As an admin you can also use a plugin where members can upload a limited number of their own personal smilies. 

To be honest, no set is going to appeal to everyone, so you make a choice and go with it, as ProBoards did.  That's life.

Apr 13, 2015 11:12:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

2. If they have a problem they should report to you first not proboards.

The 'report post' function located under the gear button? That's what I was referring to, actually. The report of abuse link at the bottom of the page should be the last resort, but visitors will still use it to report Terms of Service infractions if they don't want to go through the forum admin for some reason.  It is their right.  A report directly to ProBoards can bypass dictatorial admins that break their TOS.

Apr 13, 2015 11:12:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

3. I am not representative of everyone, anecdotal evidence is not good science.

I completely agree with you.

Apr 13, 2015 11:12:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

4. I don't use facebook.  It is very rare facebook would close an account, it would require something pretty serious,
    they know if they start banning people willy nilly they will go out of business.

Facebook banning accounts is more common than you realize. I can think of five accounts off the top of my head that were closed due to TOS violations (either pretending to be someone they weren't or spamming). They vanished without a trace, so there is no record of them.

I agree that if any site starts banning people willy-nilly their popularity will sink. On the other hand, having trolls take up residence will also sink their reputation. 

I know which option I prefer to take when decisions have to be made regarding the welfare of my group or an individual.  ProBoards would definitely lose business if I wasn't allowed to make those judgement calls.  Not only would I leave, I'd close down my boards... and I suspect that many of my members would leave ProBoards. 

I'm not worried about ProBoards changing their moderating policy any time soon, though.

[Mandoli]

Apr 13, 2015 9:15:15 GMT -8 kronks said:

Well obviously they would have to look at reported posts, but if someone is annoy them they can put them on ignore.

So based on what you're saying, we should all hold hands and sing around a campfire.

It seems as though what you're saying screams "anything goes, excluding those things that are banned by the Terms of Service". And you've said constantly that if the administrator doesn't like what they see from a certain member, they have the right to plop accounts onto an ignore list. I wish I could put quite a few members onto an ignore list, but like Celeste said - those who aren't staff sometimes don't care what happens around the board to help you out in situations that need warnings/bans.

I have a staff team of four. All of us keep our ignore lists empty. I've also stated on occasion that people (non-staff) should use the ignore list whenever necessary. And if that doesn't help, there's always the report function.

I've had people go over the admin's heads and claim that they can do whatever they want; rules or no rules. My forum has a long list of what not to do, and warnings/bans are necessary in order to keep the peace.

Let's put this into perspective: What happens if a random stranger joins a forum that you run and attacks one of your friends, who's also a staff member, to the point where whatever people do is not enough? If people start deleting their accounts because you're either not doing a good job or not doing your job period...

[Former Member]

Apr 13, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -8 kronks said:

I don't think much of the default smilies

The posters make a forum what it is, if they feel over "moderated" they will leave and find a place where there is perhaps a bit more of a relaxed atmosphere. Nobody likes to be edited, deleted or have their posts moved.

If however a poster is making racist, bigoted or posts that are just against the TOC, they should be aware that they will be edited or removed. Again, the TOC seems to be interpreted differently, depending on the moderators / admin.

People do have to respect each other, some are more easily hurt than others. Often it is a difficult balance especially when you have posters that take on the victim role. Tolerance levels vary on all forums, its about finding the right fit for each individual. Thankfully there is no shortage of forums to go to.

[kronks]

Apr 14, 2015 6:57:24 GMT -8 Mandoli said:

Apr 13, 2015 9:15:15 GMT -8 kronks said:

Well obviously they would have to look at reported posts, but if someone is annoy them they can put them on ignore.

So based on what you're saying, we should all hold hands and sing around a campfire.

It seems as though what you're saying screams "anything goes, excluding those things that are banned by the Terms of Service". And you've said constantly that if the administrator doesn't like what they see from a certain member, they have the right to plop accounts onto an ignore list. I wish I could put quite a few members onto an ignore list, but like Celeste said - those who aren't staff sometimes don't care what happens around the board to help you out in situations that need warnings/bans.

I have a staff team of four. All of us keep our ignore lists empty. I've also stated on occasion that people (non-staff) should use the ignore list whenever necessary. And if that doesn't help, there's always the report function.

I've had people go over the admin's heads and claim that they can do whatever they want; rules or no rules. My forum has a long list of what not to do, and warnings/bans are necessary in order to keep the peace.

Let's put this into perspective: What happens if a random stranger joins a forum that you run and attacks one of your friends, who's also a staff member, to the point where whatever people do is not enough? If people start deleting their accounts because you're either not doing a good job or not doing your job period...

Well I think me for personally if someone was annoying me I would just put them on ignore, end of story.

However I guess it can be more complicated than that, often the damage can be done before you do that.