[Debate] What Qualifies as Roleplay Proficiency?

[Former Member]

How do you define any of these levels of roleplay?

I agree with a lot of what has been said defining the three main levels, but sometimes the quality can end up about the same as whether a person wants to read and reply to a 1500 word post or a shorter post with the same basics of what happened and and the same information, but in fewer paragraphs with a little less detail.

Usually the beginner roleplayer is one who has only just started and has more fast-paced roleplaying and there is usually more dialog than anything else, so much of it is in the dialog. They are usually more likely to create a character with few to no flaws, or a character that wants the attention and has many flaws. A beginner can usually get a single paragraph after a while and the posts tend to get better as time goes on.

An intermediate role-player usually has 300-600 words with more detail included within their post, and they would describe the surroundings, the thoughts, and emotions going through the mind of the character. They have usually been role-playing for around 2 or 3 years and begin to develop more of a character with specific mannerisms of their character. They usually ten to move toward the same character most of the time, and their characters may have certain similarities to previous characters. This role-player continues to stick more to the basics of how they created the character.

Advanced roleplayers have been roleplaying for some time, and usually have lengthy posts from seven or eight hundred going on 1500 and over a thousand words in many cases. The advanced roleplayer can truly develope a character and will spend time on the thoughts and emotions of the characters and point out specifics of the surroundings. They usually have both flaws and good points to their personality and are more of a rounded character and they are not just asking for the attention of the other characters around them.

These can be combined to where someone may be in between levels of role-playing, like intermediate advanced and being able to write a post between 400 and 1100 words sometimes, as well as a beginner-intermediate, where the person may be able to post two smaller paragraphs. I wouldn't usually use paragraphs to define this, but I would use word counts and the substance of the reply because a paragraph may have three sentences, or a may have ten and it could bee well over two hundred words.
I consider myself intermediate-advanced, since my posts are between 600 and 1100 words and I tend to play similar characters, but I tend to refrain from creating characters without flaws, and try not to god mod because I know how frustrating it is for a person when you do.

Do you use word counts and other requirements, or are you more relaxed?

I usually put a word count around 300, which for me is about two paragraphs. I am pretty loose on this simply because I started out at one-liners and I can reply to a four hundred word post using 800 words or however many I feel like at the time, and I know that usually if you are given more to reply to it is easier for a person to create the longer posts over time.

Does your forum have these requirements to begin with?

Yes, it has either 200 or 300 as a minimum, although I tend to expect more out of the members, but I try to keep the requirement low so there could be newer members who are working to create the higher word counts.

[SearaQuoos]

I think that a writer's "rank" solely depends on the quality of their writing. I hate it when I think a site looks really interesting, but then it has some insane word count minimum that they expect every time you make a post. To me, you can prove that you're a better writer when you know what should be excluded. Some posts should be extremely long, it just makes sense that way. But most posts don't need to be over 1000 words, and shouldn't be. All it shows is that you can elaborate on that rock over there for an extremely excessive amount of time. Yeah, sometimes your character is doing things that fill up a 1500 word post - but most of the time when you fill the post with your character performing actions or talking with a mix of the two etcetera, you wind up forcing the next poster to assume that their character was just standing there doing nothing, not interrupting, not anything while your character went about his or her merry way or the person has to back post, which just makes things crazy and makes the space-time continuum angry.

I'm not saying that I approve of one liners or two liners. I don't. I think that a lot of people use this argument to justify painfully short posts. Roleplaying has to have just the right length so as not to make your partner want to shoot themselves every time you start describing the significance of that water bottle cap you saw on the ground last Tuesday; and also to make sure that your partner has enough to work off of to make a reasonable post in reply.

The scene that you're doing is important as well. If you're doing an intense, melodramatic scene that would have your character either talking a lot, or thinking a lot, or whatever - it makes sense to have longer posts. You get into an intense fight? You want to have more quick fire posting. A few paragraphs each, tops. The more you have, the more you lose energy. This is fine in a dramatic or slower scene, but not in a fast-paced one.

When it comes to word count minimums, I hate them. I don't mind if you say 'a couple of paragraphs' or whatever, but I don't like specific numbers. I can deal with it if it's not too crazy, but I think that word count minimums stifle creativity and workability in a roleplay. You're concentrating so much on making sure you hit that limit that you don't really think about your partner as much as you should and roleplay is ALL about the people you are roleplaying with. There are some people whom when I roleplay with, we churn out big posts every time, but it's all relevant. Then there's another person where we get 200-300 per post, and we accomplish a lot very quickly.

I would never roleplay with someone who gave me two lines every time, nor would I roleplay with someone who wrote a novel every time they posted. It's all about balance and the person you are roleplaying with.

EDIT:
I would also like to add a note about the 3000 word post being considered 'quality' in some circles. Consider the Harry Potter books, not the absolute best quality I will be the first to admit, but the way Rowling improves over the writing of the seven books makes me think of how a roleplayer grows. You might notice that she never spends several pages on a description. Do you know why? It's boring and completely unnecessary. In fact this is called 'Purple Prose'. Now take into consideration Twilight. You can like it for all it's worth, whatever - your decision. What you cannot do is say that it is well written. One of the reasons? 300+ pages of that book are filled with needless description that could have easily been removed. I can't remember who said it, but "J. K. Rowling proved that some teen books can be over five hundred pages, Stephenie Meyer proved that most of them shouldn't." This applies to you too, roleplayers! Some posts can be long as all get out, but most of them should be of a normal, readable length. I'm not saying don't make 2000 word posts. I'm saying think before you post it - is all of what I'm saying here, important?

[Azuloth]

This is a question that has been bugging me for some time, and its mostly because it seems very shallow and insane to label anyone in a way that either demonizes or glorifies certain people according to a so called "Skill level".

Perhaps what bothers me most about the labels is that they are used as an excuse to exclude people from roleplaying games. This makes me rage more than anything else. If there is ever a way to create a roleplaying game that everyone could join and that everyone would enjoy at the same time, let me know, because I would surely want to be a part of that.

For me, and for a lot of the people I know, roleplaying is about having fun, not about flaunting ones writing skills. On a site that I run, a couple of players have complained about someone flaunting the word count of some of their posts, and talking about their own skill as a writer. I would have to agree with them, it is pretty damn annoying to read a post that is well over a thousand words. I don't even want to look at it half the time.

So far I've kind of danced around answering the question myself, and have sort of ranted in my own way about the labeling. I do not ask much out of my members, I only ask that they have fun writing about their characters, following them around and writing down what they do and say, and adding a little context to what is happening.

---

So What qualifies as roleplaying proficiency?

In my eyes, it is the ability to make a coherent post, that retains the attention of the reader, allows one to make a coherent reply, and doesn't require discussion about the post.

I've been on advanced sites before, and a good fifty percent of the time I'm more confused about what just happened after I've read a post by a so called "Advanced" roleplayer than before I even read it. That doesn't make sense, does it? Well when that happens, there's a miscommunication between the author and the reader.

Now before anyone goes blaming me for not understanding what is written, I must point out that we're not talking advanced metaphysics, we're not talking absurdism, and we're not talking existentialism. We're talking about prose, writing, fiction, the stuff that you read on the pages of a book I'd find in the "Fiction" section of a library or bookstore, or better yet, in the "sci-fi and fantasy" section of a library or bookstore.

Every creative writing teacher I've ever had has always told me that I should, and I quote "write the way you want to write, but write clear and interesting sentences. If you don't, no editor will even get past the first page."

My point to that is that if I'm not understanding what you just wrote, you weren't clear, and I'm not going to read your post.

Here's a radical thought:

Roleplaying is about having fun, and having fun playing the game. Operating verb phrase: Having Fun. Oh my dear lord, this is radical. This is an obscene thought! How dare I write a hundred and fifty word long post on a site that asks for eight thousand words when I had fun with those hundred fifty? That's blasphemy!

Remember the five narrative modes people; this includes having dialogue where it's needed, having description where it's needed (But not too much, leave most of it to imagination), action when your characters do something, thoughts when they're thinking, and don't use sketchy uncle exposition too often. Stay away from adverbs and adverbial phrases, use stronger verbs instead. Adjectives are unnecessary if you have strong nouns. If you can say what you mean in less words, do it. No one really enjoys fluff, and if you make/insert too much description, you're bullying your reader, and no one likes a bully.

So I'll reiterate my point: Roleplaying is about having fun, and its about the people you're playing with. If you can make a coherent post and give the person or people you're roleplaying with enough to base their reply off of, then you're as "advanced" as you need to be.

[Infinity Recruitment Services]

Roleplay is a very specific animal. There are good writers, this is true. They can write dialogue well and describe scenery and actions as well as anyone. This does not make them a good roleplayer in my opinion. It is not that they have a great command of the English language or grammar in and of itself. What makes a good role player is this: cohesion.

What I mean by this is, does the roleplayer, divorced from style, play with others or by himself? Bob posting 200 or 300 words is great but if it's clear the player has not so much as looked at Alice or Charlie's posts, he is not a good roleplayer. A good role player is one who adapts to and whose character grows from the other players's posts.

Previous posts have mentioned godmodding and this can be a big part of it. What a godmodder does is rob the other players of the ability to tell an intertwined story. They make it all about themselves, so that, my character does this to yours, or that your character cannot do this to me. A good roleplayer by contrast can take a knock on the chin in a fight for the sake of the greater story.

Mary Sues are part of the same condition. The idea that their character must "win the game" by being the best of everything, the center of the universe. When a player grows up and allows themselves to be part of the whole, they are a better roleplayer for it.

[aaronm]

Jul 22, 2009 0:26:04 GMT -8 Artemis said:

In my opinion, quality is everything, or at least, most of it. I'd usually prefer more than a few sentences even if it was written with Shakespearean quality, but beyond that I don't enforce any length rules or word counts. I think it's absolutely silly to believe that longer posts make better writers, and considering I believe roleplay to be a fun pastime and hobby instead of a chore, I'd like people to feel comfortable with writing however much they feel is necessary, whether it be a single paragraph, or a multitude of pages for every post. I'm a firm believer that a good roleplay comes from the message conveyed by the words a person chooses, not how many words it took to reach that message.

I agree with this.

To me, I think at least one or two paragraphs should be more than enough to put out there for a role-play. All I really ask for in a person on my forum would generally be to try their best, think it out and take their time, and not feel generally rushed to put it out. I've had my fair share of people who are certainly impatient, many often too impatient on the others, and wind up causing a commotion that can derail the role-play or forum completely. Effort to me plays a big role; in some cases it can be rather easy to see that by posting simply "Harry walked through the door and smiled. 'Hi.'" was done purely because they didn't know what else to say, when the previous posters described the schoolyard as having many events going on at once. 'At least try,' is my rule.

Having been used to the occasional one-sentence long reply from role-players over the years, not too many really try to build off of the story and try to enhance it in any form. These are usually or often always the members who wind up leaving, complaining of boredom, or just not feeling it. It's happened to me in the forums I've been in, and in some rare cases, my own. I've also gotten the commonplace type of member who changes posts at the last minute, adding random details we didn't know to skate by.

[amaranthine]

How do you define any of these levels of roleplay?
Intermeditate/advanced can make good, high-quality posts. Semi-advanced (as I call it, sometimes/mostly called semi-literate) is pretty good, decent quality posts. Basic: you can roleplay, not very well, but you can. And then there's the little nooblets who write "-tkls to katie-supz?". Basically, yea.
Do you use word counts and other requirements, or are you more relaxed?
I do sometimes.
Does your forum have these requirements to begin with?
Yes. At my site, we ask to be able to post 50 words. That's it, something small and easy to do. It's meant for all levels of roleplaying, so we keep the count down low for the lesser-abled in terms of roleplaying.

[grieves and squick]

I've said before and will shamelessly say it again: some of my very best posts are one liners. If you take the one liner out of context, it is usually unremarkable and seems pointless, but what it is a reaction to the post that came before it, and I have been able to occasionally make a very strong post with just that one sentence, often a short one, one time it was only 5 words but wonderful. I've written poor posts too, but length has nothing to do with it.

I often have great fun in what many people in today's play by post RP community would term "n00b threads". Some of my best characters have arisen this way, through many smaller posts shot off quickly with others who are doing the same. That's right, I have great fun and apart from basic writing mechanics, such as correct spelling, grammar, etc, I don't worry about whether I'm impressing anyone. I see people on other games getting caught up in an apparent contest on who can post the "best" posts, what they are forgetting is that 1. it's a game not a writing contest and 2. it's not about how good the individual posts are anyway, it's how the thread evolves over the course of many posts.

Is RPing a great way to improve your writing? Absolutely. Mine has improved. Do people have every right to run their RPGs as a writing contest type deal, with huge post minimums? Of course. But I think people are forgetting the whole 'fun' thing. My site has been derisively called a noob site too many times for me to count. We are having too much fun to care.

[Leza]

On the site that I currently belong to, we don’t have many rules regarding roleplay ‘proficiency’, except to try to keep the grammar correct and at least give enough so that the next person can reply. I think sites with a minimum word count can sap your muse for a character if you’re struggling to reach the requirement post after post. Anything that makes the RP remotely like a chore is obviously not good because it takes away from the fun. I agree with grieves and squick ^. RPing is a great way to improve your writing, but personally, I think the fun should be the main thing.

Anyway, the members on the site I’m at are all a bit of a close-knit group. So, usually we strive to meet up with the unsaid expectations of whomever we’re posting with. For instance, if Person A posts about 500 words per post, and Person B only posts about 200, they’ll mostly meet somewhere in the middle i.e. around 350. (We don’t actually count the words, this is just something I’ve observed.) I also find that members who post shorter posts usually make muuuuchhh fewer mistakes than that of players with larger word counts. This is probably because when the post is long, you feel less inclined to reread it all. But if this is true for this scenario, Person A would proofread their own post a little more before they send it. In this way, we push each other to be a little better, but without pressure.
Post count minimums are unnecessary in my opinion.

[Owlstar]

I think length helps determine proficiency. Only typing a sentence doesn't give the other person a lot to respond to, and you can't fit much quality into only a sentence as well. I have a word count of 200 words so it can give the other person something to respond to and it helps you improve your writing because you have to include some quality in there as well to get to that limit. I try to make it not too large because it's difficult getting to something like 450 words, but not too small that you can't respond. So I think quantity and quality both aspects that determine proficiency.