Alice 2.2

[Andrea]

Hey guys! ;D

So, I know a majority of you who come in here are more advanced programmers, but I may as well share my experience in my first computer science class.

We are using a program called Alice 2.2, and I'm wondering if any of you have any experience with this program? I'm not quite sure yet if it's going to be able to teach us Java. Nonetheless, I feel like I'm not going to learn any java from this program. All of the codes we use are found in the left hand side of the program. What we have to do is drag and place.

It would be nicer if the codes we used were functional outside of the Alice program, but they aren't.

Anyway. Has anybody ever used or heard of this program?

[Jordan]

You won't learn much about programming from Alice because, like you said, it's drag and drop. I used it in high school and didn't like it very much because we weren't coding. However, it is a good program to get people interested in coding as well as to help them understand the very basic concepts of programming.

If you want to learn Java or any other language, you need to be coding a ton. Don't worry though, you will be. They just want you guys to get used to the basic thought processes that you have to go through.

If you ever need any help with an assignment feel free to send me a private message. I'm majoring in computer science as well. It's hard, but very rewarding at the same time.

[• absinthe]

lol alice is fun, i had to do an assignment in it ages ago, should upload my video lol.

Alice 3.0 is out now aswell in beta which i think i have somewhere on my desktop.

[Andrea]

jordan: That makes sense. A lot of this seems like we're learning about syntax, and the different parts of the code. And thank you! ;D I just may take you up on that offer.

Absinthe: Alice is fun so far, just not at all what I was expecting. Yeah, he mentioned the Beta version. I'm not sure I'll download it, because even version 2.2 has some bugs, I can't imagine how many bugs the beta version has. =P

[Jordan]

Jan 21, 2011 7:33:32 GMT -8 Andrea said:

jordan: That makes sense. A lot of this seems like we're learning about syntax, and the different parts of the code. And thank you! ;D I just may take you up on that offer.

Yep, that's the idea. It introduces people to programming in a visual way.

And most people do take up my offer when they start getting programming assignments.

[• absinthe]

lol if i remember right 2.2 has terrible bugs with codes, as none of the controls such as speed or pausing actually effect the sound lol.

[Andrea]

I believe it. I'm starting to enjoy it though - at least the animation part. I know that, unfortunately, I won't be learning any programming this semester, unless I go ahead and give it a shot on my own (which I am considering).

[Jordan]

I would be highly surprised if they weren't teaching you anything about programming in the first semester. Within the first month you should have written a simple program. If you really aren't studying a language, then I suggest getting a head start since it will make the next semester much easier. I rarely had to study for my first semester programming course which made my transition to university much easier.

If you need some ideas for a program I can give you some.

[Andrea]

Yeah, we definitely are not learning any actual programming... Alright, I'll get started on learning some on my own.

And if you had beginner program ideas, that would be awesome! ;D

[Jordan]

The first thing you will want to do is to make a simple application that prints out some text like "Hello World" so you know how to get a program compiled and running.

Once you've done that, I would recommend making a calculator. All you need to do is print a simple menu like below, then get the user's input, calculate the result, and then print the output.

1. Add
2. Subtract
3. Multiply
4. Divide

Choice: 3 (User enters a number here)

Enter the first number: 1 (User enters a number here)
Enter the second number: 2 (User enters a number here)

Answer: 2

Another simple program is "Guess the number". You generate a random number, then have the user try to guess the number and every time they guess too high or too low you output "Too high" or "Too low".

Once you've finished those, I would recommend writing a program that can read and write to files. A basic application could just read the contents of one file and copy them into a another file.

[Etc.]

I've heard of the program, but I've never used it myself. Several of my classmates used it in the AI class, but I don't think any of them really learned anything from it.

For my Intro to Comp Sci 1 class we used Eclipse. It's more than you need for the first class, but it has a lot of features you can use when you get to that point.

I suggest not using any IDE with a drag and drop interface. Once you get more advanced and you know the code like the back of your hand, then it can make coding faster. However I like the good ole type it out yourself technique.

[Jordan]

Alice isn't an IDE, it's really just a program that allows you to interact with a 3D environment. You don't do any real programming, just a few if statements and loops. The "good ole type it out yourself technique" is still the only technique. ;P There are IDE's like Visual Studio, QT Creator and Eclipse which will generate code for you (such as basic getter/setter functions), but the majority of all the code has to be typed out by a human.

[Etc.]

Feb 12, 2011 12:42:52 GMT -8 Jordan said:

Alice isn't an IDE, it's really just a program that allows you to interact with a 3D environment. You don't do any real programming, just a few if statements and loops. The "good ole type it out yourself technique" is still the only technique. ;P There are IDE's like Visual Studio and QT Creator which will generate code for you (Eclipse does as well), but the majority of all the code has to be typed out by a human.

I don't remember which IDE it was but in one of my classes there was a discussion about how much a group of them loved this IDE for C# because of the drag and drop. I didn't pay attention to the discussion since I don't think it's helpful.

It's one thing to have a repository of common code, it's another thing for drag and drop.

Like I said I've never used Alice Just heard loads of complaints about it from colleagues (although I think it was more about the teacher, the teacher's teaching and forcing them to use Alice).

[Jordan]

They are referring to Visual Studio which allows you to drag and drop GUI items (like buttons, input fields, labels etc.). It basically generates the code that creates and positions all the elements, and then creates empty callback functions that you have to code yourself. It's a lot different than Alice, and the visual creator is good enough to where there's no need to code it yourself unless you need to make an advanced application. It would still be good to learn the GUI API to see how it works, though. It's really not too bad.

That said, I do agree with you about the drag and drop. It's not a good way to learn because you can't drag and drop complex algorithms or data structures which is at the heart of computer science.

[Etc.]

Feb 12, 2011 13:00:48 GMT -8 Jordan said:

They are referring to Visual Studio which allows you to drag and drop GUI items (like buttons, input fields, labels etc.). It basically generates the code that creates and positions all the elements, and then creates empty callback functions that you have to code yourself. It's a lot different than Alice, and the visual creator is good enough to where there's no need to code it yourself unless you need to make an advanced application. It would still be good to learn the GUI API to see how it works, though. It's really not too bad.

That said, I do agree with you about the drag and drop. It's not a good way to learn because you can't drag and drop complex algorithms or data structures which is at the heart of computer science.

Yeah we were creating advanced programs in that class. Granted it wasn't real world level, more that of a enthusiast level.

It's funny out of all of the IDE's/text editors I have used (Eclipse, JGrasp, JEdit, BlueJ, NetBeansetc.) I've managed to avoid using Visual Studio. They're all more or less the same, it just a matter of preference and the level of work needed. BlueJ can help create Java skeleton code, and help illustrate who the classes work together, but it doesn't help much with more advanced programming.

As for Alice, I remember watching one of my colleagues play around with it for his AI class. I thought it was a little basic for a 3000 level course, and hearing that it is meant as a teaching tool for beginners makes more sense.