Members email, and IP

[VS Admin]

Unfortunately that is too open to abuse. When we block a spammer, we block them from every single ProBoards forum at once.

Perhaps in the future we'll have a way for you to report spam to us, but then we would need to manually review it before blocking them. This would take a lot more resources than our automated means that query StopForumSpam.

[Kami]

Nov 5, 2012 13:18:02 GMT -8 Ryan Roos said:

Again shorty is correct. You can search posts by IP. Which is easier than looking at IPs. You can easily see multiple accounts by IP in v5. We've given you lots of tools.

That's not what I meant, but that's okay.

[Rosefriend]

From a thread yesterday I was made aware of this thread about IP addy's..

support.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=openbetadiscussion&thread=430544&post=4995518

Since reading it all through I have become more and more uneasy. Without a full IP I can see the country so that is something but that is all and without an email addy I am stumped as admin. Not everyone on StopForumSpam is bad as IP's change so what happens in the future??

I forsee this scenario:

I am on Limited Reg so I get a newbie called "Pat" - I get an IP that leads me to the USA and that is it....nothing more. So this "Pat" from the USA could be a spammer and I am willing to bet that the spammers/trolls/troublemakers/commercials of this world are looking forward to V5....it is a dream for them as they will very probably be able to gain access to a forum more easily.
Unless I turn away everyone I have no control over who comes onto the board - we actually have to allow someone on to see who/what they are...

On the other thread talk Ryan has said "You do not need to see the actual IP or email address in order to see if multiple accounts are being used by the same person."
We are not a role playing large forum - just a little garden forum - multiple accounts really and truly don't apply to us.. I agree that once a troublemaker has gained access then it is easier to get rid of them on different forums but they have gained access to start with and that makes me uneasy. I have seen what spammers can do, even here on Support and it wasn't nice.

If spammers manage to get on a board, and I am betting they will, then people are not going to accept it after the first time. They will give the admins the blame and probably leave the board...very probably then joining up at Facebook if they aren't already a member.

There is no 100% way of knowing who a newbie is but please can someone tell me how I, as admin, can even get a rough idea who a newbie is and whether to allow them in or not in Version 5..??

RF

[Kami]

I am... - I'm not really sure what you're asking. Even if you were able to see the whole of the IP address, how would that tell you whether or not an account is a spammer? Is there a particular reason you need to see an IP in order to allow someone access to your board? An IP address isn't always accurate, either, I can think of multiple cases where one of my old IP addresses gave the wrong location.

If members leave the board because of /one/ spammer, then they weren't very good members to begin with. No online community is 100% safe from spambots or spammer accounts, so if that's what you're looking for you're going to be out of luck.

If your posting permissions are set to "registered members" only, then it's really rare you get a spam account joining up to post spam. On my personal forum, I've only seen it happen twice in the past few years, and when I was a staff member here on support it wasn't very often either.

[Rosefriend]

Hi Kami - it isn't the IP addy that is worrying me (I have friends that use proxies so I tend not to take too much notice of them anyway) - it is the fact that admins are not allowed to see the email addy, without which there is no way to even get an idea of who has registered...

For example - we do not allow commercial advertising on our board and many times a person has registered and thanks to the email addy I have seen that he/she has been leaving links to selling kitchen/doors etc etc all over the place and I haven't allowed them in.

Unless I have totally misunderstood something then if one wishes new members (and who doesn't) then basically, with V5, we will have to allow newbies in without having an idea really of who/what they are...

RF

[Kami]

Ah, I see. But when you register with a forum the first time, you get a global "ProBoards Network" account as well (which is why emails are used for logging in now). I don't think it's unlikely that PB would be able to monitor if an account does nothing but spam, plus Pat's also mentioned they have a system in place to check this place www.stopforumspam.com/ which compiles a list of known spammer emails/IPs/usernames, presumably to block them from even registering with an account to begin with. :] It wouldn't be foolproof, but nothing is when it comes to these matters, I think.

An admin will have to confirm though.

[Rosefriend]

Yes I know Stopforumspam and use it myself for checking newbies and as against true spammers it is certainly a help. As far as nuisance newbies it is fairly useless. Also people using proxies are not automatically on the wrong side.

As I see it we admins are going to have a lot more work clearing up a board if we make a wrong decision to accept someone and it will come to that, all over I fear....

As someone has already said - "a step backwards" as far as I am concerned.

Thanks Kami.

RF

[Kami]

I guess I am uncertain how having an email visible would help sort out non-spammer "nuisance" new members?

Also, I really don't understand what the concern is about accepting people onto your forum. Those "cabinet" people you referred to earlier were actual spammers, not 'nuisance' members, so maybe I'm just not understanding.

Do you have limited registrations on and check email addresses to see if other people have posted complaints about them before you let them onto your forum?

[Rosefriend]

Hi Kami - it's probably me just not explaining properly...

As I have said - we have Limited registration on the board - I feel it is necessary.

When a newbie registers I first of all google the name, IP addy and email addy.
I rarely disapprove anyone on name (could be copied), IP addy - could be changed but I always look on Stop Spam and Honeypot as well. Then I look at the email addy - if I see that it is what I call a nuisance person (by that I mean commercial - just wanting to leave a link and disappear, then I check what the links are - if gardening and useful I may give them a chance) and then finally I check mail addy's.
That gives me more info that anything else as I can see if those people are on other boards (particularly gardening) and whether they have registered on loads of other boards in a short time - sure sign to take another look.

Without a mail addy all the info is lost really. It will be more of a guessing game than it already is.
I understand the need for privacy and I also understand that not all admins are possibly as careful as they should be but I also see problems for us all in the future unless we have another way of checking a newbie...
Each time I accept someone I am going to be on tender hooks as to whether I have made a mistake and they will trash the board. At least at the moment I can be as sure as I can that someone isn't sooo bad!! I also have a mail addy that I can forward to Support if there is trouble.

It really doesn't matter in the end Kami as nothing will change by me posting about it but I felt I had to say that I am uneasy and I bet I am not the only one that isn't happy about this...

Many thanks for listening anyway.

RF

[moonbeam]

Nov 11, 2012 0:34:27 GMT -8 Kami said:

If your posting permissions are set to "registered members" only, then it's really rare you get a spam account joining up to post spam.

Perhaps if you also have your board closed to guests, but otherwise, it's absolutely not true. My forum is set to limited registration (but visible to guests) and I get them all the time. I can tell the country from the first three octets of the IP at least, and will continue to deny all from places like China, India, Malaysia, etc. But sometimes, they ARE US based, and we're going to have to take a chance on those now.

I have one pending account right now that happens to be from out of the country, but even if it weren't, the email starts with "makecashna" - which is pretty much a dead giveaway that this is a spammer. So yes, sometimes the email is useful.

That said, the above is just an example of how having the information can be good, not a whine that it will no longer be available. And of course, when I see accounts like this, I ADD their info to stopforumspam, so that it will help others.

[Rosefriend]

I totally agree with you moonbeam and I am certainly not whining - I am far too long in the tooth for that...

I have loads of people from Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia - they are leaving links for UK kitchen firms etc....I can tell them from the email addy and deny them.

However as you say I have had people that are from the UK that I really don't need and in the future will probably have to accept them to first see who/what they are...more work and fed up members!!

RF

[moonbeam]

Well, Rosefriend, if everyone adds the spammers to stopforumspam as they encounter them, they shouldn't be able to create accounts at all, according to what Patrick said. We'll just have to see how it works once v5 goes live.

[eaststandboy]

RF - I started that thread, i too am uneasy of the "automated" process at banning members.

On my forum, we get a LOT of people who we ban, they try to then create a new account. However we manually accept users. This gives us time to check anything similar with email addresses. And believe me, some people who we banned a [e-mail] rejoin as [e-mail]. So being able to see the email address can allow us to reject the registration.

And also we can identify a banned member trying to rejoin using the IP addresses location.

I am really worried that the "new" function will not be as sophisticated as myself.

[Rosefriend]

Nov 11, 2012 6:26:10 GMT -8 moonbeam said:

Well, Rosefriend, if everyone adds the spammers to stopforumspam as they encounter them, they shouldn't be able to create accounts at all, according to what Patrick said. We'll just have to see how it works once v5 goes live.

Too true Moonbeam...I still remain one very unhappy bunny!!

Nov 11, 2012 6:37:55 GMT -8 eaststandboy said:

RF - I started that thread, i too am uneasy of the "automated" process at banning members.

On my forum, we get a LOT of people who we ban, they try to then create a new account. However we manually accept users. This gives us time to check anything similar with email addresses. And believe me, some people who we banned a [e-mail] rejoin as [e-mail]. So being able to see the email address can allow us to reject the registration.

And also we can identify a banned member trying to rejoin using the IP addresses location.

I am really worried that the "new" function will not be as sophisticated as myself.

I am afraid I think the same eaststandboy - I have been around to long to believe in fairy tales.

Logic tells me that a troublemaker would never join in the global network, never use the same email addy and certainly never the same IP addy...

Even I don't intend to use the global network, even though I am a member of more than one forum...

All I see is more work and more trouble for admins...

RF

[Patrick [ASE]]

When V5 launches, you won't be able to login to a forum without a global account.

Have faith in the admins, once all boards are V5, take a look at your options when you get any spammers, then decide if the new method works