Question - Linking Other's People's Sites

[JJ]

I am not comfortable with this. I see it more and more in the past several years, usually someone wanting something to look "Just like this."

I have had a site, eight years next month. I spent many hours on many sites searching for codes to create a unique look. I had a few friends that were coders that made some codes for me. But in that eight years, I have seen people post a link to my site wanting something that looks, "Just like this." Or they link to my friend's site because I helped my friend with a lot of coding and decorating.

In the old days, that type of behavior/linking was frowned upon. People were expected to do their own research in code databases. Actually, linking to someone's site without their permission was frowned upon. Checking someone's source code to snag was frowned upon. Now? It seems like it's open season on websites that have created a special presentation.

Maybe this post makes me sound selfish and not a very generous person. Well guess what, I'm feeling that way. Why can't people just describe in plain words here in support what they are trying to achieve, and not link publicly to someone else's site (without permission?) Or maybe use screenshots, without the name of the site included?

I have a feeling that I am a majority of one with this opinion, but I felt the need to express myself. This has been bothering me for months since the conversion process has been in place. I see people's websites being posted all the time now, and it feels like an intrusion to me. If someone wants to advertise their site, there is a place here at Proboards to do that. That should be a personal choice, not one forced on them by an intruder.

[Former Member]

JJ, I think that you made a good point. Another point that I like to add, is why be like everyone else. Isn't the whole thing of having a site being different than everyone else? I myself am offended when someone post a link to my site without my permission looking for a code that I have. I, like JJ spend hours looking for different codes and learning how to do things myself. Then to have someone come and want what I have by linking to my site isn't very polite if you ask me. There are alot of codes and you should do your own research instead of having it given to you on a silver platter.

[JJ]

Thank you for the support, Christine1966, and for the 'like' Stern.

It isn't as though I haven't posted my site link many times when asking for help. But now, I am wondering about that. Am I opening myself to pirates, people that want what I have worked to have? I've been here at Proboards for many years, and once upon a time, people used to describe what they wanted and a kind staff member or just regular member would work with them and help them with a 'fix.' Now? Now it seems like it is normal to just browse sites and say, "give me this." That just doesn't sit well with me.

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

Hi, JJ. Nice to see you. 

I absolutely agree that copying someone's design and/or creative property is always wrong. No question.

But if it's a matter of asking how to make something "work" and it's not proprietary code, I'm not sure I see the issue.

The only way I would take issue is if it's a private board and not seen by the public and someone joins for the express purpose of accessing code.

[JJ]

Hello, Luv. I'm not sure you are seeing the broader picture. I do have what you might call a private board, a person must join to see the particulars of the topics provided. There is a preview of most of what is available, but not the contents. Unfortunately, some features just can't seem to be hidden, at least not yet, I am thinking about that and how to achieve it.

But my main point was about using a link by a stranger to someone's site to achieve an objective. It isn't like the person is a member or even a friend, just a passerby that wants to duplicate another person's work product. Which goes back to what you said about "Copying someone's design and/or creative property." How do you define creative property? I define it by overall appearance and function and the codes in place to create those things.

I am not sure how someone joining the site would give them access to the codes, so you lost me there.

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

JJ, what I mean by that is if boards are closed to visitors and everyone must log in, there's no way to view "source". They could only do that by joining the forum where "source" becomes visible.

I think of all the coders here on support who give of their knowledge and skill to provide codes for all of us with nothing more than a thank you as pay. 

I do understand about board design and wanting to keep that proprietary. That's absolutely how it should be. But I don't think anybody on ProBoards' staff would violate that concept by providing language that would allow someone to take something that is yours.

I just don't know how codes fall under that category.

Images, layout, yes. That makes the board uniquely yours.

But creating code that, for example, allows you to jump from top to bottom, or allows you to make a link move when you hover, isn't proprietary unless you, yourself, came up with the code. Then absolutely, that is wrong.

Public forums on the web are subject to being linked and/or quoted. 

Plagiarism is completely wrong. But if someone is asking how something works, unless that coding language does exclusively belong to only you, that is the perils of a public forum. ProBoards does provide a way to circumvent that by opening the board to members only.

[JJ]

Luv, are you familiar with View Source? I just went to your site linked in your siggy, where I am NOT a member and viewed your Source Codes. If you aren't familiar with this option, just move your mouse to the far right side here at Proboards, right click and View Source. You will see everything installed here at Proboards. Everything in there can be copied and duplicated.

No, I didn't create a lot of the codes I use, but I spent many days looking for some of them, and at multiple coding sites, and even asking for them to be created for me. So where does that fit in your criteria since I did not create them myself? I actually did have a coder make me a code to go from the top to the bottom of the board in 2006. Now it is pretty standard. But for years, many people wanted that code and my coder friend told me I could not share it, it was private, so I didn't.

My site is open to members only, Luv.

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

JJ, yes, I know what view source is. That's why I referred to it. Your board is open to members only but it's not a private board.

By that, I mean it doesn't show the ProBoards message that "Guests must log in". 

I don't think my friend will mind me using her board as an example ~ comesayhello.proboards.com/index.cgi

You can't view her source because she has a closed board. That's the difference I am speaking about.

Many owners use smilies we haven't created and we don't attribute to their creators because many aren't on sites where attribution is given.

Many of us who have used codes and plugins from the kind folks here, give credit where it is due and acknowledge them on our sites.

And even if we don't, many of the plugin creators attach their names to the plugins and that can be viewed in the source code.

There is a code of ethics that should be followed. I agree.

But I still believe that if you're on the public web, linking to a site on the web to ask how something works isn't wrong ~ unless that work was produced by oneself. 

And I do believe ProBoards' admins know the difference and wouldn't take attributable material and pass it along.

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

I've actually had this done to me before for my mini-profile that I created and I was looking up codes and I found a thread on Support and a member had linked to my site asking how they could make their mini-profiles like that. I didn't appreciate it... I don't know why, I just didn't.

I will admit that I have used source to see how some people do their codes but that was just curiosity because some people have some CRAZY stuff and I just wanted to see how it was possible.

[Boy_Wonder]

To be honest I don't see the harm in asking for codes other people have used, as LONG as they're public domain. That is to say for example like the monetary code.

If someone can't find it then why should I complain if someone asks where do they find it?

However if someone asks (with a link to my site) on how I say did the board layout and wanted their board layout exactly the same then I'd be a bit annoyed. Why? Because I worked hard to get that custom board layout made, its custom for myself.

I'd also be angry if someone stole the graphics I used that were particularly made for the site - including emoticons that I've worked on making myself. Why? Well again because I've been busy making these for the site - with credits to any bases used.

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

I guess the question then would be is it right to come here and ask how to do something at all if we can't do it ourselves?

Most things on the internet have been done before so is asking how it can be done for your board, if you can't do it yourself, acceptable?

I think we all agree layout, design, graphics we've created belong to us ~ no question about it.

But if we haven't created the code, but we've utilized it a certain way in a certain layout, is it really ours?

And isn't it easier to show ProBoards what  we are speaking about ~ an example ~ for something that we would like to implement? It cuts down on the confusion and errors.

[Former Member]

Luv as regards to your Friend's Site I was able to "View Source" even though their site is where Guest Must Login.
What JJ and I both are referring to and tell me how you would feel. We both spend hours, days and sometimes weeks working with Coders to get certain things that we want for our sites. Then to have someone come along and provide a link to my site (Which they did.) then say I "want this, this and this". How can you say that there is nothing wrong with that. To me it is rude. You are telling me that to you it isn't?
What gives them the right to just be nosey and look at people's sites then have everything that want handed to them on what we in the South call a Silver Platter? Why can't they go look for the codes? We do.

Trinity I have done what you have but if I like what someone else has on their site I am kind enough to go look for the codes or ask for what I want by describing to a coder. I know how you feel someone just yesterday asked for a couple of things that I have on my board and provided a link to my board in their post.


Good Point Hawkeye. I have learned to add a copyright to my smilies where people can't see or know that it is there. That way should I my smilie then I know how to prove it is mine. If you use PSP or a graphic program and interested I would be happy to pm you on how to do that.

[Boy_Wonder]

Jul 6, 2013 5:52:26 GMT -8 @christine1966 said:

Good Point Hawkeye. I have learned to add a copyright to my smilies where people can't see or know that it is there. That way should I my smilie then I know how to prove it is mine. If you use PSP or a graphic program and interested I would be happy to pm you on how to do that.

With me I have such a specific 'style' of pixelling if I do touch pixels then I'm pretty confident in my ability to spot them - I use Photoshop however and I'd be interested in hearing how you copyright smileys personally. 

[Former Member]

Sure thing Hawkeye. I will pm you on how to do this.

[JJ]

Luv, as Christine did, I was also able to view your friend's source codes. You are right about smilies and emotes being on the web for use. But I HAVE created some smilies and emotes using Paint Shop Pro and Animation Shop. And they were copied from my site and used by other people. I don't see a problem with asking how to achieve something for your site. My objection is in using a link to someone else's site as though it's up for grabs to plunder. Instead, as I mentioned before, describe what you want, explain how you want it to work and work with a coder to get it for yourself.

I know what you mean about not appreciating it, Trinity, and not really knowing why. It just feels wrong for some reason when someone takes advantage of what took us hours to achieve.

Hawkeye, I see you understand what I mean about time spent and your site being a work product of your effort.

Yes, Christine, it is the time spent, trial and error getting a code to work that makes it seem like my work produce. As you said, it can often take weeks to get the kinks out of a code and make it work smoothly.