Taking Applications

[Former Member]

Click bait! Click bait! I literally made that title to get you're attention... <3

But it still has to do with the question I have about getting staff, contributors, developers, etc.

What is your opinion about 'taking applications' for such positions on a website?

From the few that I have heard from on this, I guess it's not looked at as a good thing because you're recruiting people you don't know. But isn't that the same thing that a business does when they take applications for management positions? Those aren't always promotions! That's how I view 'taking applications' as when I'm in need of people to help develop a site/idea, partially because they don't already have an agenda with me that could effect their performance. They're coming in completely third party with (hopefully) completely new ideas.

How I see it, you can do it basically the same way a job application is done. Get some information about the person, like a little personality profile, to see if they're even interested/passionate about the topic of the site, and then have them provide examples (their resume) of their work, and even have them provide some references on other sites who could vouch for them. And then do an interview, ask them more questions that would be important regarding integrity and trust. Even go so far as to do Skype calls with them to actually hear them.

If we treat it as actually having people apply for a job, going through the whole 'hiring' process, do you think that it could be a way to recruit talent needed for development? Because, I'll admit to it, my talent is lacking in the areas of graphics and coding. I'd want to recruit those who know what they're doing.

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I think one of the worries people have is the giving of access and powers. Of course, people recruited using this method would only be given power that is applicable to their position. People who I want to have help with graphics and coding would be given limited access. It would all be pending my own approval. That's why I have a 'testing and development' site. I'm using it to test ideas. Anything that will become official I would personally move to the official site. But I guess not everyone would be that careful about it.

I don't know. You guys tell me what you think!

Edit: I hope asking this doesn't violate any rules about staff recruitment. I'm not trying to recruit right now anyways. I'm just curious about people's opinions on this topic.

[Kami]

I think the difference for me is that you generally, as a Real World Business Person, request references, experiences, can conduct background checks, etc.

Most strangers applying for staff positions don't use their real name much less provide references that we can definitely prove belong to them (what guarantee have we they're not faking their identity?)

Asking all applicants to submit to a Skype interview will be met with resistance. This is not a job. They are not being paid for their time. As someone who has tried this before I can tell you that a vast majority of people will not apply as soon as they find out they have to share their identity before getting the job.

Here is a very apt real world example: a few years ago I was applying to be a community manager for a triple A gaming company. Part of the job -- a huge part -- was managing the community forums.

But I couldn't just give them the URLs of communities I'd managed in the past and use that as proof I'd be good at the job. I submitted a cover letter, a CV detailing my education and personal experience, I provided real world names and contact info for the administrators I had worked with and used as references. They ran a background check. They conducted a four part interview. (I didn't get the position, as I do phone interviews very poorly but that's neither here nor there).

The point is: We can't do that as average Joe forum administrators. Asking for phone numbers for your references is considered a breech of privacy. Running a background check and asking for real names is a breech of privacy. If a staff member "goes rogue" on a hobby forum (as opposed to a forum attached to a business) they will not suffer any real world consequences such as having a negative reference for future jobs. At most they get banned and demoted but this is not a consequence that will affect them anywhere else but the forum they've messed up.

Promoting from within allows you to establish a relatively good feel for the people you are promoting. You can observe their behaviour, how they interact with others. You can observe how they relate to the site itself, how important it is with them, if they are able to separate themselves and not let the forum consume them. Will this stop people from letting their status go to their heads? Of course not. But establishing trust goes a long way.

Obviously your mileage may vary but having open applications on a volunteer position that grants the applicant power over the people/community as an admin are responsible for is very frequently a recipe for disaster. It's not comparable, in my opinion, in hiring someone for a real world job because the only consequence the person would be afraid of is being banned... And that won't affect them anywhere else, unlike getting fired from a real world job.

I'm not necessarily saying that it's a bad thing always to hire strangers. But for me I would rather have someone approach me to collaborate so I know they're passionate and interested, than have a thread available for all to see because you never know what kind of people that may attract.

I mean take the two of us for instance. I contacted you after you and I had chatted on this forum for a bit and demonstrated my passion for your idea. Would you have seen that if I had submitted a little form with some 100 word summary that would've basically read "video games are fun I wanna help u" ?

[Former Member]

Asking for phone numbers for your references is considered a breech of privacy. Running a background check and asking for real names is a breech of privacy.

These items would not be asked for. As for the Skype call, it wouldn't be video, just voice. Just for clarifications.

I can definitely see what you're saying though. Even with all of those steps in place, it's still people behind a keyboard. Even you and I don't know what the other looks like or what the voice sounds like.

Looking at what I said before, yeah, it is really... It does sound dumb to me looking back. But I'd still like to continue this discussion and see what other ideas people have about this.

As always, Thank you Kami for being awesome!

[Kami]

Jul 29, 2016 8:22:34 GMT -8 @dlsheer2010 said:

Asking for phone numbers for your references is considered a breech of privacy. Running a background check and asking for real names is a breech of privacy.

These items would not be asked for. As for the Skype call, it wouldn't be video, just voice. Just for clarifications.

I can definitely see what you're saying though. Even with all of those steps in place, it's still people behind a keyboard. Even you and I don't know what the other looks like or what the voice sounds like.

Looking at what I said before, yeah, it is really... It does sound dumb to me looking back. But I'd still like to continue this discussion and see what other ideas people have about this.

As always, Thank you Kami for being awesome!

I don't think it's dumb, for the record. For those interested in running a professional feeling forum, it's only natural to consider having open applications.

And I know you wouldn't be asking for phone numbers, I was just illustrating that the comparison with real-life job applications isn't fully accurate because they DO ask for the phone numbers of all applicants and their references, as well as addresses etc. for the purposes of verifying not just identity but trustworthiness and experience; whereas were a hobby forum to ask that / make it mandatory, it would be considered a violation of privacy.

I think it's good to keep the discussion rolling as well. I know my opinion is just one side of the argument, and I know other people have had good experiences with open applications. My opinion is specifically formed due to my experiences not just as a forum admin but as a (former) mod here on support where I've seen far too many people have bad experiences for my liking to ever be comfortable with the idea.

Now I do think there are ways around it. On my forum I once held an open call for a certain position type; this position didn't allow for the deletion of posts / threads or access to the admin panel, which prevented the issue of anyone removing content.

[Former Member]

So, after Kami and I had our little private discussion about Staff/Moderator applications, I'm going to try to bring this in here as well for further discussion...

What do you all think of taking moderator applications?

It is widely understood that moderators are the lowest on the staff totem pole. They usually only have the powers of post management. They are assigned to a board (or boards) and they have to monitor the traffic inside, making sure all users are complying with forum rules as well as ProBoards ToS.

What do you think of applications for this particular position and what kind of powers would you give these individuals?

[nariadreaming]

I know I have a larger community than many, so I hope that my advice is still applicable.

Whenever we open a new board on our forum, we have an admin serve as mod for the first few months. After that, we allow the active users of that board to nominate (or self-nominate) and then vote on a moderator.

Final approval of course lies with the admins, but it's been quite successful for us. It was also how mod "applications" were handled before we moved to proboards

[Former Member]

Aug 17, 2016 11:57:55 GMT -8 nariadreaming said:

I know I have a larger community than many, so I hope that my advice is still applicable.

Whenever we open a new board on our forum, we have an admin serve as mod for the first few months. After that, we allow the active users of that board to nominate (or self-nominate) and then vote on a moderator.

Final approval of course lies with the admins, but it's been quite successful for us. It was also how mod "applications" were handled before we moved to proboards

All advice is applicable in some say, I'm sure!

I like the idea of the nomination process. Then other members can weigh in and let you know who they trust, as well as you deciding who you trust.

Again, Moderator being such a small role, I find that this also opens doors to promotions down the line, people looking to get into the higher ranks.