Particularly Nasty Troll Problem

[Rafael]

Forum URL: odd74.proboards.com

Hey, all!

Over at our board, we've spent about the last twelve months fighting one particularly nasty troll. The issues we've been dealing with go from mildly annoying, but relatively harmless stuff (like swarming the board with sock puppets) to more concerning matters like (so far) minor content theft, and even potentially criminal fraudulent activity. 

Is there anything you guys can recommend, or do for us?

Our community is relatively small, but prestigious within its own niche, and obviously connected to to a wider market. That's why we're generally used to some degree of heat, and to the dynamics that you get when you create a community where many small-business competitors are directly involved. However, this guy is taking things to a new level, and our team is simply not comfortable having to deal with all this weirdness on our own, any more. So, we're hoping for you to give us an idea of how we can solve this.

Thank you,

Rafael

[Caajscot (John)]

Jun 24, 2018 0:16:36 GMT -8 Rafael said:

Forum URL: odd74.proboards.com

Hey, all!

Over at our board, we've spent about the last twelve months fighting one particularly nasty troll. The issues we've been dealing with go from mildly annoying, but relatively harmless stuff (like swarming the board with sock puppets) to more concerning matters like (so far) minor content theft, and even potentially criminal fraudulent activity. 

Is there anything you guys can recommend, or do for us?

Our community is relatively small, but prestigious within its own niche, and obviously connected to to a wider market. That's why we're generally used to some degree of heat, and to the dynamics that you get when you create a community where many small-business competitors are directly involved. However, this guy is taking things to a new level, and our team is simply not comfortable having to deal with all this weirdness on our own, any more. So, we're hoping for you to give us an idea of how we can solve this.

Thank you,

Rafael

Hi Rafael, why can't you just ban him? when I was a Mod on another forum and we had any member who was causing problems then we would just ban him/her, surely you can do that if you go into your Admin settings. 


Edit: Just thought, are you an Admin/Mod on your site as only they can ban a member.

[Kami]

Building off of that, the best way to deal with this beyond banning is to turn on restricted registration; this way, each new user account will require manual approval from the forum creator + any sufficiently permissioned staff (global powers must be set to 'yes' so they can access the admin panel).

Beyond this, however, there's nothing more that can be done as IP and global account ban are the highest levels of ban available. Admins may be able to ban them service-wide, but it sounds from your post that they're already circumventing this with sock puppet accounts, which will likely continue if they are banend from the service as a whole.

Lastly though, the bit about criminally fraudulent activity is concerning. I recommend getting in touch with a legal representative (many of them will discuss generalities of a situation before recommending whether or not you should seek proper legal counsel, if money is a concern) and/or local authorities.

[Rafael]

Thank you for the quick reply!

Jun 24, 2018 0:50:06 GMT -8 Caajscot (John) said:

Hi Rafael, why can't you just ban him? when I was a Mod on another forum and we had any member who was causing problems then we would just ban him/her, surely you can do that if you go into your Admin settings. 


Edit: Just thought, are you an Admin/Mod on your site as only they can ban a member.

Yes, I am a Global Mod over there, and of course we banned this guy - but he keeps coming back, either using different real-life connection points, or, more likely given the astronomic numbers of different IPs we have recorded, a VPN.

Jun 24, 2018 1:28:00 GMT -8 Kami said:

Building off of that, the best way to deal with this beyond banning is to turn on restricted registration; this way, each new user account will require manual approval from the forum creator + any sufficiently permissioned staff (global powers must be set to 'yes' so they can access the admin panel).

Beyond this, however, there's nothing more that can be done as IP and global account ban are the highest levels of ban available. Admins may be able to ban them service-wide, but it sounds from your post that they're already circumventing this with sock puppet accounts, which will likely continue if they are banend from the service as a whole.

Yeah, that's the problem. Basically, we can manage each situation, but we can never reasonably let our guard down.

Jun 24, 2018 1:28:00 GMT -8 Kami said:

Lastly though, the bit about criminally fraudulent activity is concerning. I recommend getting in touch with a legal representative (many of them will discuss generalities of a situation before recommending whether or not you should seek proper legal counsel, if money is a concern) and/or local authorities.

Yes, we will, as soon as we have more than circumstantial evidence. - Now, before I go further into detail, all this notably has not taken place on our board, but on another board that the individual in question himself has created on the Proboards server, and that he basically uses as a springboard, of sorts, to create a false legitimacy for his trolling operations. Is there anything that could be done about that, perhaps?

I write you all this trusting that any "super-user" here has access to my account, as well as to the private section of our forum, where our mod team has collected, in some rather meticulous research, and over the course of almost a year, all sorts of evidence that backs up what I am saying here. Screenshots, Excel tables of our collection of IP addresses, and so on. - Just so it's clear that I am not, whatever, writing something down out of a momentary fit, or that I was personally angry with that person.

The very long and complicated backstory is that this is that the troll I am talking about is sort of a community nemesis; he has created all sorts of internet drama (that vastly transcends the situation on Proboards) since probably around 2005. People would cheer if we "doxed" this person - and with the info we've obtained over the course of last year, that certainly would be a possibility. But we don't want to do that because it would create a situation that we couldn't control. butt that he is, we don't want to harm this guy outside of what is necessary, and not outside of the law, in case there is indeed a legal case there.

At the same time, we don't want to let the situation continue as it is. So, what can we do that is appropriate? What could Proboards do for us in this situation, if at all?

[Retread]

Hello Rafael

ProBoards Admins* are online Monday through Friday from 9am-5pm PST/PDT (with the exception of some US holidays). I believe some of the issues you're dealing with will require the level of assistance only they can provide, so rest assured you will get a reply from one of them in this thread. 

It's likely one of them will invite you to contact them via Personal Message so as to keep any sensitive information such as email addresses, IP addresses, etc, out of the public view and on a need-to-know basis.  I applaud you for speaking in general terms when describing the situation rather than pointing to a specific individual.  Likewise, I believe it was prudent that you didn't publicly identify the forum being employed as a preparation site for attacks on your forum.

Jun 24, 2018 6:14:43 GMT -8 Rafael said:

Yes, we will, as soon as we have more than circumstantial evidence. - Now, before I go further into detail, all this notably has not taken place on our board, but on another board that the individual in question himself has created on the Proboards server, and that he basically uses as a springboard, of sorts, to create a false legitimacy for his trolling operations. Is there anything that could be done about that, perhaps?

I write you all this trusting that any "super-user" here has access to my account, as well as to the private section of our forum, where our mod team has collected, in some rather meticulous research, and over the course of almost a year, all sorts of evidence that backs up what I am saying here. Screenshots, Excel tables of our collection of IP addresses, and so on. - Just so it's clear that I am not, whatever, writing something down out of a momentary fit, or that I was personally angry with that person.

The very long and complicated backstory is that this is that the troll I am talking about is sort of a community nemesis; he has created all sorts of internet drama (that vastly transcends the situation on Proboards) since probably around 2005. People would cheer if we "doxed" this person - and with the info we've obtained over the course of last year, that certainly would be a possibility. But we don't want to do that because it would create a situation that we couldn't control. butt that he is, we don't want to harm this guy outside of what is necessary, and not outside of the law, in case there is indeed a legal case there.

At the same time, we don't want to let the situation continue as it is. So, what can we do that is appropriate? What could Proboards do for us in this situation, if at all?

You're absolutely right.  You do NOT want to dox anyone for any reason.  Matters like this must be dealt with lawfully and ethically.  Setting the stage for retaliatory attacks is completely improper.

The RedShirts (ProBoard Admins) will have access to your forum on a similar level as your Admin.  They probably have some investigative and diagnostic tools which rise above that.  I can't say for sure but I believe they have intentionally made access to individual accounts (areas like Private Messages) outside of their realm as an assurance of privacy.

I *think* they have access to your hidden boards, if so they will be able read the information you've collected in whatever Staff Workshop and/or Post Prison you've created.  Managing this situation will take some time but the information you've collected will probably speed up the process.

Run-of-the-mill trolls can be handled with standard tools and strategies.  It would appear this individual (or group) is a P³ (Particularly Pernicious  Problem).  That calls for the professionals.  Best wishes to you and them while you deal with this.

[Kami]

While I appreciate you have additional evidence, some things to keep in mind:

1. as mentioned, the most PB could do would be to prevent this person from accessing their service. if this person uses a VPN or proxy, however, PB staff is similarly limited in how effective this would be to deter them

2. any behaviour taking place off of a proboards hosted forum is inadmissable, barring extreme cases (there was one instance where a service-wide ban was enacted because the user in question was a massive risk to minors). if a bulk of our evidence is off-proboards, theres a very high chance it wont be considered as PB cannot control the actions of its userbase when not on their service.

3. if he is using proboards as a base if operations so to speak, you can report the forum using the "report abuse" link found at the bottom of their forum, or by emailing [e-mail] so the abuse team can examine if this user has violated the tos.

[?adwoman?]

consider this plugin www.proboards.com/library/plugins/item/286
Warning: don't work on mobile
www.proboards.com/library/plugins/item/326 and this using super key
or others have said just ban the troll and turn off or restrict registration for awhile...

[Scott]

Rafael , as far as your forum is concerned I see you have restricted registration enabled and your boards set to members only for creating threads/posting. The only other thing you can do for the forum is to install the two plugins that ?adwoman? recommended above. Beyond that there should not be any openly visible discussions about this individual that guests or members can access/read. Some trolls feed off the attention.

Any activity that is a violation of our Terms of Service should be reported to the Abuse Department via the Report Abuse link found at the bottom of forum pages or by directly emailing at [e-mail]   Please make sure to include detailed information and any relevant links, etc. so that the report can be properly reviewed.

[Rafael]

Thank you all for responding! A lot of helpful ideas for me!

Jun 24, 2018 8:08:52 GMT -8 Retread said:

You're absolutely right.  You do NOT want to dox anyone for any reason.  Matters like this must be dealt with lawfully and ethically.  Setting the stage for retaliatory attacks is completely improper.

Yeah, absolutely. Particularly with the D&D community, the important part is to keep things real, and within measure. If this guy ever gets over whatever mental breakdown is causing his current behavior, there must be a place for him at a gaming table, again. Not exactly on MINE, but there's a difference between locking him out of the community, or locking him out of every gaming club in his region. Not that I wouldn't have found some grim joy in doing the latter, but as a community, we need to be better than that.

Jun 24, 2018 8:08:52 GMT -8 Retread said:

Run-of-the-mill trolls can be handled with standard tools and strategies.  It would appear this individual (or group) is a P³ (Particularly Pernicious  Problem).  That calls for the professionals.  Best wishes to you and them while you deal with this.

Yeah, that's the point. Sometimes, the formal approach is the best one. None of us want to engage in some sort of bizarro internet warfare with some nutjob; but we can't condone the way this individual is behaving, either.

Jun 24, 2018 10:06:46 GMT -8 Kami said:

While I appreciate you have additional evidence, some things to keep in mind:

1. as mentioned, the most PB could do would be to prevent this person from accessing their service. if this person uses a VPN or proxy, however, PB staff is similarly limited in how effective this would be to deter them

2. any behaviour taking place off of a proboards hosted forum is inadmissable, barring extreme cases (there was one instance where a service-wide ban was enacted because the user in question was a massive risk to minors). if a bulk of our evidence is off-proboards, theres a very high chance it wont be considered as PB cannot control the actions of its userbase when not on their service.

3. if he is using proboards as a base if operations so to speak, you can report the forum using the "report abuse" link found at the bottom of their forum, or by emailing [e-mail] so the abuse team can examine if this user has violated the tos.

Precisely; this is also why I am asking about it: The problem at our forum is not precisely over, but more or less under control. So, now is the time to get clear what options we have if things get worse again. This is also why I am emphasizing so much that I am not posting "in panic mode"; I just want to protect my friends from more abuse and sabotage.

Jun 24, 2018 11:50:42 GMT -8 ?adwoman? said:

consider this plugin www.proboards.com/library/plugins/item/286
Warning: don't work on mobile
www.proboards.com/library/plugins/item/326 and this using super key
or others have said just ban the troll and turn off or restrict registration for awhile...

Cool, I'll page our admin; he's reading this, I trust. It's just that I have been helming this "investigation", so it's better if I do the explanatory part.

Jun 25, 2018 7:06:00 GMT -8 Scott said:

Rafael , as far as your forum is concerned I see you have restricted registration enabled and your boards set to members only for creating threads/posting. The only other thing you can do for the forum is to install the two plugins that ?adwoman? recommended above. Beyond that there should not be any openly visible discussions about this individual that guests or members can access/read. Some trolls feed off the attention.

Any activity that is a violation of our Terms of Service should be reported to the Abuse Department via the Report Abuse link found at the bottom of forum pages or by directly emailing at [e-mail]   Please make sure to include detailed information and any relevant links, etc. so that the report can be properly reviewed.

This is what I'll then do. In case I have questions about the ToS, should I post them here, as well?

My gut feeling tells me that the sock puppetry and the content theft, while annoying, won't be enough to reprimand the problematic individual. As to the possible criminal intent behind this person's actions, I also assume before there are "exigent circumstances", there won't be much we can do, either.

Scott, would it be appropriate if I sent you a PM detailing the basics of this case, so you can perhaps give me a first impression before I contact [e-mail] in a more formal fashion?



Thanks, again, everyone! You're all a great help!

[Brian]

Jun 26, 2018 7:50:00 GMT -8 Rafael said:

In case I have questions about the ToS, should I post them here, as well?

Feel free to create a new thread for any of these.

Jun 26, 2018 7:50:00 GMT -8 Rafael said:

Scott, would it be appropriate if I sent you a PM detailing the basics of this case, so you can perhaps give me a first impression before I contact [e-mail] in a more formal fashion?

There's no penalty for contacting the abuse department about content that ultimately doesn't warrant action on their part. As long as your report is an actual report and not a blatant misuse of the abuse report system (which usually involves using it for anything other than its intended purpose) you should be fine.

[Rafael]

Hey all,

A brief, and very positive update on my part - we're able to postpone our "official" complaint against the troll, after all, if for no other reason than that his operations seem to be dying down right now. If the issue becomes more relevant again - in that he tries to make a comeback - then we'd like to take action.

For now, setting fire to a house that is already burning doesn't seem all too useful, especially since this seems to be a conflict that cannot be solved cleanly on our part - only by essentially discouraging the guy to continue with his actions. For that, keeping a few aces in our sleeve is perhaps not too bad.

To give you a bit of the bigger picture, but still without going into specifics: This troll has held the community in awe for many years, and, among other things, has even gone as far as to straight-out scam a very famous writer. (Famous, at least in our niche of the hobby.) That writer has apparently become gradually aware of the guy's actions, and now withdrawn his support. This withdrawal has the potential to scare this troll away in a more lasting fashion than we ever could, so we want to wait this out. - We're dealing with a guy here who tries to use trolling as a means to further his (rather absurd) business interests. So, even if we manage to whatever, close a blog, or close a message board, he will come back as long as he sees opportunity. So, it's that opportunity that needs to go, not the medium.

Personally, I'm just glad that it looks like our little nerd family won't need to spend the entire summer on this, and that we can focus on more productive and positive things now. 

Thanks again, everyone! - Can't rule out that this isssue doesn't come back at some point, but for now, it seems things have changed for the better without us needing to engage with the aggressors in any way!

Yours,

Rafael