Can we do something about reCaptcha?

[refundroid]

I've read other threads where users reported recurring issues with reCaptcha during new user registration. I've also come across threads where people requested to give forum owners an ability to turn it off. I am wondering if there is any plan to refine this feature. I do redirect users to help guides on common issues with reCaptcha (e.g. IPv6 vs IPv4, VPN, etc.), but this gets redundant and frustrating. Many users also end up claiming "I did everything, but it's still not working." I know they are lying (or they don't understand technology enough to follow through with troubleshooting), but the issue still remains. If no one has been working on improving this, then I'd like to suggest that when a user fail reCaptcha, it provides a link to an extensive troubleshoot guide with a disclaimer that the user is responsible to resolve the user-end conflict with reCaptcha so that they don't complain to the forum owner. Or, like others have requested, allow us to turn it off. Another solution is to let a forum owner select from multiple verification methods (e.g. instead of reCaptcha, using a Q&A or a secret keyword to register).

[Kami]

May 10, 2023 9:02:44 GMT -8 refundroid said:

I've read other threads where users reported recurring issues with reCaptcha during new user registration. I've also come across threads where people requested to give forum owners an ability to turn it off. I am wondering if there is any plan to refine this feature. I do redirect users to help guides on common issues with reCaptcha (e.g. IPv6 vs IPv4, VPN, etc.), but this gets redundant and frustrating. Many users also end up claiming "I did everything, but it's still not working." I know they are lying (or they don't understand technology enough to follow through with troubleshooting), but the issue still remains. If no one has been working on improving this, then I'd like to suggest that when a user fail reCaptcha, it provides a link to an extensive troubleshoot guide with a disclaimer that the user is responsible to resolve the user-end conflict with reCaptcha so that they don't complain to the forum owner. Or, like others have requested, allow us to turn it off. Another solution is to let a forum owner select from multiple verification methods (e.g. instead of reCaptcha, using a Q&A or a secret keyword to register).

In my experience, a vast of majority of reCaptcha issues are because people have adblocker turned on. Of course, your mileage may vary.

I'm not a PB admin but to levelset expectations v5 feature development has been put on hold so I would think this would fall under that. (An admin can further clarify if needed)

[Michael]

Hi,

There is no plan to change or remove reCAPTCHA at this time. Other verification methods (like Q&A and keyword) can easily be compromised and open forums to bot attacks.

As Kami already mentioned above, most reCAPTCHA issues are related to ad-block or simple user error. Is there something specific that you've heard from users about issues they're having? 

[refundroid]

May 10, 2023 9:22:51 GMT -8 Michael said:

Hi,

There is no plan to change or remove reCAPTCHA at this time. Other verification methods (like Q&A and keyword) can easily be compromised and open forums to bot attacks.

As Kami already mentioned above, most reCAPTCHA issues are related to ad-block or simple user error. Is there something specific that you've heard from users about issues they're having? 

The keyword there is "most." Not all cases are user errors, and this system is failing some users that aren't really at fault. For example, reCaptcha doesn't function right when a user is on IPv6. Nowadays new ISP plans are more and more integrating IPv6 into their systems, and many people are using mobile internet home plans. Troubleshooting guides and help forum/threads talk about disabling IPv6 in routers/modems to bypass this, but we all know that most laypersons wouldn't know or feel comfortable messing with tech at that level.

We've also seen a lot of college students who are on school networks that can't do reCaptcha, and this is clearly not their fault since they don't have a choice. We've told them to go to use a public network like coffee stores, but some don't even have a laptop.

[Michael]

Hi,

Can you provide more information? There are extremely few issues with IPV6 and reCAPTCHA and most of those have to do with another error entirely, usually a IPV6 address that is already associated with spam.

I also don't understand the issue with college campuses being able to complete reCAPTCHA.

[refundroid]

May 10, 2023 10:57:28 GMT -8 Michael said:

Hi,

Can you provide more information? There are extremely few issues with IPV6 and reCAPTCHA and most of those have to do with another error entirely, usually a IPV6 address that is already associated with spam.

I also don't understand the issue with college campuses being able to complete reCAPTCHA.

Sure. As for school network, there are many reports of this online, and they speculate that Google considers it to be an "unusual traffic" because so many requests all originate from the school's IP address. I'm sure this differs by what kind of setup a particular school has. Smaller schools may be using a setup that may get flagged more easily than larger well-known schools. Many of our users that had issues with reCaptcha were also on their school networks (live on campus).

As for IPv6 goes, there are many reports of this online also. I've seen more reports related to mobile internet plans, so I wonder if there are something more specific to that vs just all/general IPv6. I'm guessing reCaptcha also flags these as unusual traffic of some sort.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/sg3jgx/google_captcha_verification_repeated_message/

www.reddit.com/r/Fios/comments/t5yy64/problem_with_google_chrome_error_constantly/

github.com/umbraco/Umbraco.Forms.Issues/issues/963

[Michael]

Hi,

As the post you shared points out, this is related to re-use of blocked IPV4 addresses, not IPV6.

This is not an IPV6 issue. There are no issues with using IPV6 addresses with reCAPTCHA. In fact, based on what I've been reading, IPV6 usage would likely help resolve this issue as we would not be reusing old blocked addresses.

Large school campus users might experience an issue, but again that's likely related to abuse on their network and something that individual users should take up with their campus IT office in conjunction with Google. This is the same sort of issue you might encounter on any number of websites who have blocked previous malicious traffic from campus IPs due to previous abuse.

We will not be moving away from reCAPTCHA anytime in the foreseeable future. 

[refundroid]

May 10, 2023 11:47:03 GMT -8 Michael said:

Hi,

As the post you shared points out, this is related to re-use of blocked IPV4 addresses, not IPV6.

This is not an IPV6 issue. There are no issues with using IPV6 addresses with reCAPTCHA. In fact, based on what I've been reading, IPV6 usage would likely help resolve this issue as we would not be reusing old blocked addresses.

Large school campus users might experience an issue, but again that's likely related to abuse on their network and something that individual users should take up with their campus IT office in conjunction with Google. This is the same sort of issue you might encounter on any number of websites who have blocked previous malicious traffic from campus IPs due to previous abuse.

We will not be moving away from reCAPTCHA anytime in the foreseeable future. 

The problem is, schools aren't going to do anything about it. Your argument is correct but only in theory, not in reality. But, it's still helpful to know that proboards aren't going to do anything about it. Thanks for the info.

[refundroid]

May 10, 2023 11:47:03 GMT -8 Michael said:

Hi,

As the post you shared points out, this is related to re-use of blocked IPV4 addresses, not IPV6.

This is not an IPV6 issue. There are no issues with using IPV6 addresses with reCAPTCHA. In fact, based on what I've been reading, IPV6 usage would likely help resolve this issue as we would not be reusing old blocked addresses.

Large school campus users might experience an issue, but again that's likely related to abuse on their network and something that individual users should take up with their campus IT office in conjunction with Google. This is the same sort of issue you might encounter on any number of websites who have blocked previous malicious traffic from campus IPs due to previous abuse.

We will not be moving away from reCAPTCHA anytime in the foreseeable future. 

I am reporting that the issue is not reCAPTCHA after all. I did some more research online and came across this troubleshooting on Google's forum where they suggested to try their official demo reCAPTCHA at www.google.com/recaptcha/api2/demo. They said that if the user was able to pass that official reCAPTCHA fine but not on a third party website, it means that the third party made some error somewhere in how they set it up. It makes sense to me. I started asking people who reported reCAPTCHA issues on proboards to go try that official demo reCAPTCHA, and they reported back saying they passed it just fine. I think proboards need to take another look on how it set up reCAPTCHA.

[The Referee]

As an aside from a forum owner for 8 years and an Internet user for 30 years, some CAPTCHA's are really difficult. I have not had any trouble here at Proboards, but some sites use CAPTCHA's that are really difficult visually for this almost 70 year old. The audio options some CAPTCHA's have are impossible for me. I foresee the time as I age when CAPTCHA's will eventually block me from participating in a huge chunk of the Internet. Maybe by that time, I will be able to use an AI to do them for me.

[refundroid]

Just reporting that it is definitely proboards. There must be some kind of coding error in the way proboards integrated reCAPTCHA (or maybe there is some kind of update that hasn't been done?). Users that have issues with proboards' reCAPTCHA continue to pass Google's official one just fine (www.google.com/recaptcha/api2/demo).

[Dante]

I find this highly unlikely.

reCAPTCHA is used for new member registrations as well as guest actions like creating threads, posting, and forum search. Only ProBoards can confirm the numbers but my rough guess is the daily reCAPTCHA use must be in the thousands.

Statistically speaking if there was a "coding error" or problem with how ProBoards is using reCAPTCHA, I would think there would be more than just one person complaining here.


Anyway, anyone that's been a member long enough or even sifted through the threads on this board knows ProBoards is pretty transparent about things and has no problem admitting if something broke or whatnot. The support team is top notch and they're here to help.

So, if you really believe there's a problem, then give ProBoards something to work with to solve it.

You said: "Users that have issues with proboards' reCAPTCHA continue to pass Google's official one just fine"

Ok, exactly how many users?

What happens with the ProBoards reCAPTCHA? Provide screenshots of the error they get.  Or at least explain in detail what happens, how it fails. (Provide this for each user, as not everyone's experience may be the same.)

What browser is each member using?
And is that browser updated to the latest version?
Are you absolutely positive they are not using an adblocker or similar that could be interfering?

[refundroid]

May 27, 2023 16:19:44 GMT -8 Dante said:

I find this highly unlikely.

reCAPTCHA is used for new member registrations as well as guest actions like creating threads, posting, and forum search. Only ProBoards can confirm the numbers but my rough guess is the daily reCAPTCHA use must be in the thousands.

Statistically speaking if there was a "coding error" or problem with how ProBoards is using reCAPTCHA, I would think there would be more than just one person complaining here.


Anyway, anyone that's been a member long enough or even sifted through the threads on this board knows ProBoards is pretty transparent about things and has no problem admitting if something broke or whatnot. The support team is top notch and they're here to help.

So, if you really believe there's a problem, then give ProBoards something to work with to solve it.

You said: "Users that have issues with proboards' reCAPTCHA continue to pass Google's official one just fine"

Ok, exactly how many users?

What happens with the ProBoards reCAPTCHA? Provide screenshots of the error they get.  Or at least explain in detail what happens, how it fails. (Provide this for each user, as not everyone's experience may be the same.)

What browser is each member using?
And is that browser updated to the latest version?
Are you absolutely positive they are not using an adblocker or similar that could be interfering?

Not necessarily. I've seen other similar complaints, not just me. The trend is that proboards assumes that it's a user error, and people give up or move onto a different service, especially because proboards is very outdated in today's tech standard. I'll likely move to a different service myself. Just so you understand, I started out assuming that it was user-end issues too, and put users through extensive troubleshooting related to reCAPTCHA. I didn't jump on to conclude that it was proboards as it didn't even cross my mind. However, the only explanation that makes sense now, after exhausting all others, is that there is something on the proboards itself that's causing this issue. Granted it's not affecting all users. None of what you pointed out can explain why they can pass Google's official reCAPTCHA but cannot get passed the one on proboards. There have been more than a dozen users that complained this issue, and that's only ones that actually bothered to complain, so I'm sure there are more users that faced this issue and just walked away. In fact, I just began building a new site and forum through Wix, and just to do another test, I asked someone who cannot get passed proboards to try signing up there (Wix also uses reCAPTCHA), and they were able to pass it vs proboards. So, yes, it is proboards without a doubt.

[d9074]

No.