stevegardner
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Post by stevegardner on May 11, 2008 14:16:32 GMT -8
It would be nice, when a link for one is posted, if the poster would at least give an idea what is going on. It's basically a five second clip from Fox News showing the sort of fancy graphics they normally show on the hour/half hour before cutting to the studio presenters. Here's a screen capture of the offending image. McCain's image was present momentarily and no other images were shown. At normal speed, McCain's image would not have registered with the vast majority of viewers. My own view is that this very obviously a subliminal message. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who disputes this, particularly if they could describe what a subliminal message should look like and how this one differs.
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Post by Joy on May 11, 2008 14:23:31 GMT -8
Thank you Steve. Why did I immediately think of Saturday Night Live from that image? Looks like product placement to me, but then I did not see the video.
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Post by Artemis on May 11, 2008 14:25:50 GMT -8
I'm really stuck on whether to say if it's a subliminal message or not. It's not like, for the very few people who'd have noticed it if it wasn't mentioned on the internet, people would say, 'Aha, a split second image of a presidential candidate... must... vote... McCain!' It just strikes me as odd that out of everything they could pull as a subliminal message they'd do something hardly noticeable like that.
Though, I'm not surprised. It's Fox 'News,' I can't expect anything better from them anyway.
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Post by The Dancing Lock Guy on May 11, 2008 14:28:57 GMT -8
I think some need to see what Subliminal messaging is again. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_messageA subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes. That should explain why some people are outraged and yes, by all means, its wrong and in most of the cases even illegal. I don't think the message would be successful if the movies playing so fast that you can't see or know who the guy is.
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stevegardner
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“We all do no end of feeling, and mistake it for thinking.” - Mark Twain
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Post by stevegardner on May 11, 2008 14:30:26 GMT -8
It just strikes me as odd that out of everything they could pull as a subliminal message they'd do something hardly noticeable like that. That is pretty much the definition of a subliminal message. This is from Wikipedia. A subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes.
Subliminal techniques have occasionally been used in advertising and propaganda; the purpose, the effectiveness, and the frequency of the application of such techniques is debated.
The term subliminal means "beneath a limen" (sensory threshold). This is derived from the Latin words sub, meaning under, and limen, meaning threshold. I'd encourage you to read the rest of the article to see how subliminal messages work. Particularly this bit: By subliminally priming or preparing the participant with text or an image without being aware of it, gave the partaker familiarity with the product.
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Post by Matej on May 11, 2008 14:32:08 GMT -8
The whole point of a subliminal message is just that; you cant see it with the naked eye, however your mind sees the image and remembers it in the subconsciousness.
Thats the idea behind submilinal messages and its exactly like this one described. Just because you dont notice it, doesnt mean your mind doesnt notice it.
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Post by Artemis on May 11, 2008 14:33:12 GMT -8
It just strikes me as odd that out of everything they could pull as a subliminal message they'd do something hardly noticeable like that. That is pretty much the definition of a subliminal message. This is from Wikipedia. A subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes.
Subliminal techniques have occasionally been used in advertising and propaganda; the purpose, the effectiveness, and the frequency of the application of such techniques is debated.
The term subliminal means "beneath a limen" (sensory threshold). This is derived from the Latin words sub, meaning under, and limen, meaning threshold. I'd encourage you to read the rest of the article to see how subliminal messages work. Particularly this bit: By subliminally priming or preparing the participant with text or an image without being aware of it, gave the partaker familiarity with the product. The thing is, I know what one of them is, I'm a Psychology minor so I got to learn all about that sort of thing. =P When I said 'hardly noticeable' I meant that it was really hard to see unless the tape was slowed down and you were focused right on that area. In my view, if political bias counts as subliminal messaging, Fox should be charged already. I really don't think this little image of a candidate counts, that's all.
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stevegardner
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Post by stevegardner on May 11, 2008 14:36:41 GMT -8
When I said 'hardly noticeable' I meant that it was really hard to see unless the tape was slowed down and you were focused right on that area. With respect, you must have replied without reading my post. It included the following: [Subliminal messages are] designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind... Thus, if you were able to see them easily without slowing the tape down and focussing, it wouldn't have been subliminal.
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Post by Panch on May 11, 2008 14:40:08 GMT -8
That video suprise me when it show it really slowly and it showed Mc Cain. I got to show this to my family lol. They will be suprised by this.
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Post by The Dancing Lock Guy on May 11, 2008 14:44:30 GMT -8
That is pretty much the definition of a subliminal message. This is from Wikipedia. A subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes.
Subliminal techniques have occasionally been used in advertising and propaganda; the purpose, the effectiveness, and the frequency of the application of such techniques is debated.
The term subliminal means "beneath a limen" (sensory threshold). This is derived from the Latin words sub, meaning under, and limen, meaning threshold. I'd encourage you to read the rest of the article to see how subliminal messages work. Particularly this bit: By subliminally priming or preparing the participant with text or an image without being aware of it, gave the partaker familiarity with the product. The thing is, I know what one of them is, I'm a Psychology minor so I got to learn all about that sort of thing. =P When I said 'hardly noticeable' I meant that it was really hard to see unless the tape was slowed down and you were focused right on that area. In my view, if political bias counts as subliminal messaging, Fox should be charged already. I really don't think this little image of a candidate counts, that's all. Same here, really. Does FOX really expect to me "hypnotized" by something so hard to notice? Sure your mind might notice somehow, but the message fails right there if you don't know who the guy is. Would you vote for someone you don't know? Would you even know if that guy is a politician? What if you're not in favour of the republican party? Even if you did know all the Presidential Candidates for the 2008 Election and were in favour of one them, well, how is one image of John McCain going to do anything? All it would serve as is a reminder for those Republican-leaning voters, "Oh hey, I noticed an image of John McCain. That reminds me, I should vote for him this week." Especially when it's playing so fast... no one would notice it, I think they would be more interested in the more important news than some random person's face. My personal view is though, is that, well, all news/media is crazy in some sort of way. FOX must be coming to a new low if they think this image is going to change anything in the election. ;D
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stevegardner
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Post by stevegardner on May 11, 2008 14:49:35 GMT -8
Then it wasn't subliminal.
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Post by tom on May 11, 2008 14:50:19 GMT -8
I'm really stuck on whether to say if it's a subliminal message or not. It's not like, for the very few people who'd have noticed it if it wasn't mentioned on the internet, people would say, 'Aha, a split second image of a presidential candidate... must... vote... McCain!' It just strikes me as odd that out of everything they could pull as a subliminal message they'd do something hardly noticeable like that. Though, I'm not surprised. It's Fox 'News,' I can't expect anything better from them anyway. Well, it would hardly be subliminal if it was noticeable o.0 And I've come to expect this sort of thing by any corporation run by the less than honourable Rupert Murdoch
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Post by Artemis on May 11, 2008 14:50:51 GMT -8
When I said 'hardly noticeable' I meant that it was really hard to see unless the tape was slowed down and you were focused right on that area. With respect, you must have replied without reading my post. It included the following: [Subliminal messages are] designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind... Thus, if you were able to see them easily without slowing the tape down and focussing, it wouldn't have been subliminal. I did read your post. That doesn't really mean I agree with the passage based on what I've learned though. It bypasses the conscious, sure. However it must be noticed in some way, even by the subconscious, no? With something like that, someone would really have to know what the flash was, put it together with who it is, and all that. I really doubt this was meant to influence a large amount of the population or even some. If they're watching Fox, they already get a ton of Republican bias, so this isn't anything out of the ordinary.
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stevegardner
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Post by stevegardner on May 11, 2008 14:57:48 GMT -8
It bypasses the conscious, sure. However it must be noticed in some way, even by the subconscious, no? Noticed by the subconscious, yes. But not the conscious. The power of the subliminal message lies in its supposed ability to influence you without you being conscious of its influence. So the very fact that you wouldn't have noticed it had it been played at regular speed is good evidecne this was intended as a subliminal message. Another way of looking at this would be to ask yourself why McCain's image was incorporated in the graphics sequence if it was never intended to appear on screen long enough to register consciously with the vast majority of viewers?
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Post by Artemis on May 11, 2008 15:08:55 GMT -8
It bypasses the conscious, sure. However it must be noticed in some way, even by the subconscious, no? Noticed by the subconscious, yes. But not the conscious. The power of the subliminal message lies in its supposed ability to influence you without you being conscious of its influence. So the very fact that you wouldn't have noticed it had it been played at regular speed is good evidecne this was intended as a subliminal message. Another way of looking at this would be to ask yourself why McCain's image was incorporated in the graphics sequence if it was never intended to appear on screen long enough to register consciously with the vast majority of viewers? That's very true. However granting that fact, doesn't it means that so many things these days can count for subliminal messages? A lot of the time it may simply be unintentional, or otherwise simply a part of the presentation that's always supposed to have been there just for effect. As an example (that I'm in no way saying is true) could be that, as McCain is the only Republican candidate (well, major one) they'd have his image as part of their logo during the election campaign. Though I don't think there can be much said for either side of the argument, though moreso for the side that says it is indeed subliminal messaging. That said, I'm bowing out of this discussion. =P
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