#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 9:46:59 GMT -8
is mostly crap, especially section 15 of it. 15. USER CONTENT
"User Content" is any content, materials or information, not including Personal Information (as defined in ProBoards' Privacy Policy), that You upload or post to, or transmit, display, perform or distribute by means of, the Website, whether in connection with Your use of Services or otherwise. YOU HEREBY GRANT THE PROBOARDS PARTIES A PERPETUAL, FULLY PAID-UP, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE, IRREVOCABLE, ASSIGNABLE LICENSE TO COPY, DISTRIBUTE, TRANSMIT, PUBLICLY DISPLAY OR PERFORM, EDIT, TRANSLATE, REFORMAT AND OTHERWISE USE USER CONTENT IN CONNECTION WITH THE OPERATION OF THE WEBSITE, SERVICES OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR OR RELATED BUSINESS, IN ANY MEDIUM NOW EXISTING OR LATER DEVISED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION IN ADVERTISING AND PUBLICITY. YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT THE PROBOARDS PARTIES MAY PUBLISH OR OTHERWISE DISCLOSE YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR EXERCISE OF THE LICENSE GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE, AND HEREBY WAIVE, ANY CLAIMS ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO THE EXERCISE BY THE PROBOARDS PARTIES OF THE RIGHTS GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY CLAIMS RELATING TO YOUR RIGHTS OF PERSONAL PRIVACY AND PUBLICITY. YOU WILL NOT BE COMPENSATED FOR ANY EXERCISE OF THE LICENSE GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION. So, the government procedures i write - you´re allowed to take this out of the public domain and sell it? I´m not in agreement with that. The reason i posted this information is so it would be free, reliable, and up to date. If this content is ‘‘sublicensable’’, that goes entirely against the intentions of its original distribution. As it says in that section, it is for use "IN CONNECTION WITH THE OPERATION OF THE WEBSITE, SERVICES OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR OR RELATED BUSINESS, IN ANY MEDIUM NOW EXISTING OR LATER DEVISED" We are not taking an exclusive license to the content. You still own the content, but by using our service and posting it to our service, you are authorizing us to use the data as part of our service. If you make a post on a forum, we need the right to be able to publish it in connection with our service.
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154048
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May 3, 2010 10:59:22 GMT -8
hogsmacker
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May 2010
hogsmacker
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 10:54:47 GMT -8
Post by hogsmacker on May 2, 2010 10:54:47 GMT -8
Actually, you don´t need the right to publish it elsewhere, edit it, sublicense it, distribute, and possibly sell it as your own. This is very similar to the clause in the privacy policy of MySpace that caused a huge ruckus a few years ago. It ended with them removing it, because it´s entirely BS. You´re trying to get people to agree to this after they´ve spent countless hours and years on these boards publishing content.
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#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 11:03:09 GMT -8
Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 11:03:09 GMT -8
Actually, you don´t need the right to publish it elsewhere, edit it, sublicense it, distribute, and possibly sell it as your own. This is very similar to the clause in the privacy policy of MySpace that caused a huge ruckus a few years ago. It ended with them removing it, because it´s entirely BS. You´re trying to get people to agree to this after they´ve spent countless hours and years on these boards publishing content. We have absolutely no intention of taking your work and claiming that we own it, because we don't. You are authorizing us to use the information you provide to us in conjunction with the service. ProBoards intends to continue to operate as we have in the past. This update to our TOS is intended to make everything extremely clear in regards to the service we offer. Regrettably, if you do not agree with our terms, you may opt to cease using our service.
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154048
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May 3, 2010 10:59:22 GMT -8
hogsmacker
16
May 2010
hogsmacker
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 11:04:54 GMT -8
Post by hogsmacker on May 2, 2010 11:04:54 GMT -8
If you have no intentions in sublicensing a derivative of someone´s work under a different license (which may or may not be public domain), then why is this included in your ToS?
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#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 11:07:51 GMT -8
Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 11:07:51 GMT -8
Our lawyer drafted this agreement and we are using their recommended language.
The agreement doesn't transfer your rights away from keeping your content in the public domain.
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134992
0
May 26, 2012 2:38:57 GMT -8
SubDevo
Creator of LSD...
3,861
December 2008
subdevo
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 11:57:43 GMT -8
Post by SubDevo on May 2, 2010 11:57:43 GMT -8
Patrick, I am also concerned about this clause. It seems to me, that it does leave wide interpretation. Especially, "OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR OR RELATED BUSINESS". You quoted: The continuation of that clause also raises my attention: So this says you can use/send anything we post (PMs, posts in hidden/private threads etc...) for advertising usage? It also says that you (PB and "PROBOARDS PARTIES") may disclose any personal information for the same purposes. hmmm I know someone will say, "We don't do that", but it gives you the RIGHT to do it. I have noticed that since PB has changed their advertising partners, they (the ads) have become more invasive to the end user by tracking every page and user. Also trying to access information that is denied by FF (but not IE). I did not notice all of this tracking before... The new TOS is very large and all "legal" language. Since, you allow age 13 and above, I find it hard to believe that anyone that young will have any idea what any of the TOS means. (If they read it at all). Heck, you have to be a lawyer to really understand what is in there! lol Analyzing the TOS with EULAlyzer. Produces this result: If the old TOS (concise and readable) served you well for the past 10 years, why all of a sudden this huge, new "legal" version? Is proboards being hit with legal matters recently? Funny thing is that I (and others) have more concerns, but I'm starting to feel that we should just be quiet. I'm worried that users such as hogsmacker, me and others could just be quietly banned and shut down, since this is now in the TOS: Regards, SubDevo
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18913
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Nov 4, 2010 15:51:38 GMT -8
WWII Reenactor
34
January 2004
pfcdavis
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 11:57:55 GMT -8
Post by WWII Reenactor on May 2, 2010 11:57:55 GMT -8
Speaking of the new TOS, can I get a clarification on "You" and "Your"?
Are the forum admins liable and held accountable for any wrong doing even if the admin is unaware that their members are violating the TOS?
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#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 12:03:03 GMT -8
Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 12:03:03 GMT -8
Patrick, I am also concerned about this clause. It seems to me, that it does leave wide interpretation. Especially, "OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR OR RELATED BUSINESS". You quoted: The continuation of that clause also raises my attention: So this says you can use/send anything we post (PMs, posts in hidden/private threads etc...) for advertising usage? It also says that you (PB and "PROBOARDS PARTIES") may disclose any personal information for the same purposes. hmmm I know someone will say, "We don't do that", but it gives you the RIGHT to do it. I have noticed that since PB has changed their advertising partners, they (the ads) have become more invasive to the end user by tracking every page and user. Also trying to access information that is denied by FF (but not IE). I did not notice all of this tracking before... The new TOS is very large and all "legal" language. Since, you allow age 13 and above, I find it hard to believe that anyone that young will have any idea what any of the TOS means. (If they read it at all). Heck, you have to be a lawyer to really understand what is in there! lol Analyzing the TOS with EULAlyzer. Produces this result: If the old TOS (concise and readable) served you well for the past 10 years, why all of a sudden this huge, new "legal" version? Is proboards being hit with legal matters recently? Funny thing is that I (and others) have more concerns, but I'm starting to feel that we should just be quiet. I'm worried that users such as hogsmacker, me and others could just be quietly banned and shut down, since this is now in the TOS: Regards, SubDevo Hello Sub, Our old Section 8 of our TOS stated that we could remove any account for any reason (and this simply still holds true with the new version). We have never banned someone from this forum for simply asking questions about our service and that will not change. I am happy to publicly answer your questions. As ProBoards has grown, we most definitely do handle a lot more legal related issues. This update to the TOS is most definitely a reflection on that. The language included in the TOS is at the recommendation of our lawyer. Patrick
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#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 12:04:57 GMT -8
Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 12:04:57 GMT -8
Speaking of the new TOS, can I get a clarification on "You" and "Your"? Are the forum admins liable and held accountable for any wrong doing even if the admin is unaware that their members are violating the TOS? In the event that a user of your forum is violating the TOS (not yourself, the forum owner), this would not result in the removal of your forum. We will contact you and/or the user regarding the violation to have the situation resolved. We always do our best to try to rectify any situations to the best of our ability without going the extreme route of full forum deletion.
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18913
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Nov 4, 2010 15:51:38 GMT -8
WWII Reenactor
34
January 2004
pfcdavis
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 13:28:59 GMT -8
Post by WWII Reenactor on May 2, 2010 13:28:59 GMT -8
e) Legal Action
If ProBoards, in ProBoards' discretion, takes legal action against You in connection with any actual or suspected breach of this Agreement, ProBoards will be entitled to recover from You as part of such legal action, and You agree to pay, ProBoards' reasonable costs and attorneys' fees incurred as a result of such legal action. The ProBoards Parties will have no legal obligation or other liability to You or to any third party arising out of or relating to any termination of this Agreement.
Does "You" in this part refer to the forum owner only or the general population of all members?
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181912
RIP RIP RIP Almost RIP - Why does this social section still exist?
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Jul 6, 2015 20:35:17 GMT -8
CheatAreZee
56,804
March 2005
zyvoloski
Ricky's Mini-Profile
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 13:38:48 GMT -8
Post by CheatAreZee on May 2, 2010 13:38:48 GMT -8
e) Legal Action
If ProBoards, in ProBoards' discretion, takes legal action against You in connection with any actual or suspected breach of this Agreement, ProBoards will be entitled to recover from You as part of such legal action, and You agree to pay, ProBoards' reasonable costs and attorneys' fees incurred as a result of such legal action. The ProBoards Parties will have no legal obligation or other liability to You or to any third party arising out of or relating to any termination of this Agreement.Does "You" in this part refer to the forum owner only or the general population of all members? Hi, The terms of service agreement is for both forum owners as well as regular members. So "You" would be you, the person reading the agreement.
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154060
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May 31, 2010 8:13:54 GMT -8
escarlata
3
May 2010
escarlata
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 15:10:43 GMT -8
Post by escarlata on May 2, 2010 15:10:43 GMT -8
In addition to the new wording in Section 15 regarding ProBoard's Right to use content in any manner they see fit (my interpretation), I am concerned about the following clause in Section 25:
My interpretation of that is that if I don't agree to the new TOS and Terminate my account, it doesn't matter. ProBoards still has the right to do anything they want with anything that's ever been posted in our forum since Section 15 will survive the termination.
Section 15 has no mention of any obligation to pay any fees to ProBoards. Why it is included in this sub-section is beyond me.
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#e61919
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Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 15:18:35 GMT -8
Post by VS Admin on May 2, 2010 15:18:35 GMT -8
In addition to the new wording in Section 15 regarding ProBoard's Right to use content in any manner they see fit (my interpretation), I am concerned about the following clause in Section 25: My interpretation of that is that if I don't agree to the new TOS and Terminate my account, it doesn't matter. ProBoards still has the right to do anything they want with anything that's ever been posted in our forum since Section 15 will survive the termination. Section 15 has no mention of any obligation to pay any fees to ProBoards. Why it is included in this sub-section is beyond me. Our primary service is a free service. If you do not use any of our paid features, you owe nothing. When you delete your account, we automatically remove your profile which has your personal information. If you wish to also remove your posts, you should do so before removing the account by clicking the delete button in your posts.
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154060
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May 31, 2010 8:13:54 GMT -8
escarlata
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May 2010
escarlata
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 15:25:20 GMT -8
Post by escarlata on May 2, 2010 15:25:20 GMT -8
Thanks for the quick reply, Patrick. We're contemplating what to do with our forum. A decision and the necessary steps will be made before the 13th.
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Jul 6, 2012 5:13:16 GMT -8
Donovan Avarie Desod
57
April 2007
donovanavarie
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New TOS
May 2, 2010 16:15:57 GMT -8
Post by Donovan Avarie Desod on May 2, 2010 16:15:57 GMT -8
For those that don't know. A Trademark does not just come to you because you made something or posted up on a site. Thats an evil and overy thought idea. A trademark must be files with the State Secretary's Office or Federal Trade Commission (which all Web based Products and Commerce fall under). This includes filing different forms depending on the type of use the product has; Whether the product is commerial or private; And let us not forget the $375 fee per form. Once filed and approved that product, name or item is now trademarked to you. Not till then. Some paid Domains do come with Trademarks already. So anything designed and posted on the Domain's websites will be trademarked to the paying owner of the site. If you post a layout on a forum Community its not trademarked to you but actually to forum you posted it on. Less you have taken the time to get a trademark for your site. And yes you can get in trouble for saying it's trademarked when its not, its called Fraud. A Copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of “original works of authorship” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, both published and unpublished. The 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly. The copyright protects the form of expression rather than the subject matter of the writing. For example, a description of a machine could be copyrighted, but this would only prevent others from copying the description; it would not prevent others from writing a description of their own or from making and using the machine. (As stated by the US Government) Copyrights are registered by the >> Library of Congress' Copyright Office. << ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Copyright laws are much more flexible. Though its also over thought that if you post anything on the web you now have a copyright to it. WRONG!! Most people miss the fine print of site privacy and agreements. Specially the part that says the owners of the site are entitled to the use of all written contributions placed on the site for their personal use. And yes they can do that. Most Web site owners have paid for the copyright for the whole site. When you click agree and continue on the Privacy and Agreement form you just gave them full permission. Thus anything on or placed within the site is theirs now. For any newbie, the best thing to do is always write on paper or print your personal writings. You can then take these writings to any bank to have them dated and notarized the item. Otherwise there are a few other locations you can have the item notarized for a minimal fee. Once you have this done you have now established a basic copyright of the piece and can place it up on the web. If someone tried to take claim for the work you now have proof it was yours first. Without that notarization you are S.O.L. Sorry. To get a permanent copyright for designs, site content and so on you will need to file with Us Government for a Copyright. This includes filing different forms and paying a $30-$540 Fee depending on the type of copyright you need.. Original Photography and Artwork does fall under a copyright to the artist. (that has sent the image in for a copyright) This copyright stays with the artist unless the piece has been alter with over 75% change. And sorry Changing all the colors does NOT count. 75% of the line work and design must be changed. Even if this is done you may be still liable to the original artist's copyright of the piece. 1)To Protect yourself as an artist. Make sure you always have a dated copy of the original art work. 2)Take the time to get the art piece copyrighted if you plan to use it on the web. 3) Know where you got things from, otherwise you are asking for a law suit. And yes people will sue you for the simplest thing as taking claim for a web design they made. Other Great sites for info on Copyrights and Trademarks on the net. www.whatiscopyright.org/
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