i as an atheist disagree with Christmas.

[Michael]

So, I guess this is a bit of a rant, but also what I feel about christmas.

---

Many of you will be sat celebrating Christmas, many of you will be Atheists. So I pose to you - what are you celebrating?

---

As an atheist myself, I don't agree with the idea of celebrating Christmas.
Why are atheists taking something that is ultimately fake, made up etc, and celebrating it? It's like being a vegetarian and saying: 'I'll just eat a bit of bacon - and still be a vegetarian'.

Furthermore, I understand that it gets families together etc, however, most of the event is over commercialised, pointless and to be honest, a waste of money.

I'm not trying to deplore other people from enjoying the day, or anything like that. I just find it slightly rediculous for people to celebrate something they don't believe in - almost selfish!

Meh. Post your thoughts etc... It's a bit of a mish-mash of wording, but hey-ho.

[Thesealion]

I have always wondered the same thing...

[Robyn]

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

[Thesealion]

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

Or that they will take any holiday as an excuse to party...

[Michael]

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

I knew that you'd come up with a reason like this, I had hoped that you would venture to a more ... mature response.

[Joshua Farrell]

Most of the time, it is celebrated, just to keep in touch with family. There are people who get depressed when something major happens, and they are all alone during it. There are suicides during christmas, due to the fact that people are alone, and thinks no one cares for them.

For the most part, I see it as a way to get together, and do something with someone and just have fun.

[Ara (Crow)]

Because now the media has taken away most of the religious s meaning of Christmas and now display it as a time of the year where you get together with family, share the love, and buy overpriced presents and put them under a pine tree to give to each other in the morning. While eating fruitcake.

[Anselm]

Just trying to think of possible things, values, that sort, you could take from Christmas.

Things like giving to others, being with family - they could be perfectly secular values. And the whole idea of hope for the world - even if you disagree with the principle of Jesus bringing hope, you could think in a more humanist fashion about that?

(I'm a Christian btw, just speculating, or trying to...I don't particularly like the commercialisation of Christmas myself, not sure you're particularly going for that though)

[Trill]

Many tend to assume that Christmas is a Christian holiday and thus it should only really be celebrated by Christians. Non-Muslims don't celebrate Ramadan, right? And Non-Jews Hanukah? Although Christmas has largely been a Christian religious holiday, that has changed dramatically. It already included many elements borrowed from other religions, which made it easy to transform in modern, secular culture. There are many ways to celebrate Christmas without reference to Christianity or religion.

Christmas is a more of a cultural rather than a religious holiday. This does not mean that there are no religious elements to Christmas; on the contrary, there are many religious aspects to Christmas. Culture, though, is more than just religion, and this means that there is more to Christmas than just religion, even though it's a day to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. In fact, significant portions of Christmas celebrations today don't originate in Christianity at all.

[jimjones]

There has been a celebration at this time of year in this country for a long time before Christ was ever dreamt up, so why the hell not.

[The Dancing Lock Guy]

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

No, it's because it's an excuse to party, as Nightwalker said.

I agree there is a certain stigma with celebrating a tradition that you don't believe in - but because the materialistic aspects of Christmas are so commercialized, it has been ingrained into consumer culture.

Christmas has long ceased to be about celebrating Christ's "birth" - it has ultimately lost its meaning and has had no meaning except to act as an excuse to sell crap toys parent's children will no longer be playing with for the next year because they'll want the next cool toy.

People will also take any excuse to celebrate for the sake of celebrating - not because it's a tradition they embrace. The commercialization of Christmas has encouraged that to happen, which itself is a result of a once nonsecular culture becoming more and more secular.

It's interesting to note that this level of marketing has only really been experienced with Christmas and not something related like Easter.

Yeah, chocolates are still marketed - but the wide variety of what can be exchanged at Christmas time in the way of happiness and good faith in reciprocity was a jewel too good to pass up for people looking for profits.

So what are these people celebrating? It could be argued that they're appreciating the secular values, like anselm said, of bringing family together and giving to others. You don't need to be a Christian to be a good person and easily take a more humanist attitude towards the whole thing.

Is it bad that it has been commercialized? Perhaps, but if it has lost its way, perhaps celebraters should take a different attitude towards Christmas too then and allow Christmas to retain some of its original meaning by upholding those particular secular values.

Has that been kept up? I think so, in the end it doesn't matter if Christians originally celebrated it because Christians celebrate their holiday anyway, and their holiday is about giving to others - not giving to Christians only and being good to Christians only.

You could argue that you have to be a Christian to celebrate April Fools day too since that has originated from Christians mocking Pagan beliefs. Yet who celebrates April Fools day? Anyone set out for a good laugh.

As long as the central meaning of the holiday or event is not lost, it shouldn't matter who is celebrating it because they are helping uphold the principles that helped bring it into place. As long as that's done, no one can really argue that Christmas or any other Pagan holiday has been truly corrupted.

[AndrettiFan]

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

Oh boy

[The Dancing Lock Guy]

Dec 24, 2010 17:04:21 GMT -8 AndrettiFan said:

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

Oh boy

I know, I face - palmed too >.> What will Robert say next? xD But let's try to keep it on topic :3

[Robyn]

Dec 24, 2010 16:26:50 GMT -8 Thesealion said:

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

Or that they will take any holiday as an excuse to party...

That's more or less what I had in mind.

Dec 24, 2010 16:29:53 GMT -8 Michael said:

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

I knew that you'd come up with a reason like this, I had hoped that you would venture to a more ... mature response.

I would have, but then I realized that I would be poked at anyway, so I went with the lighthearted way.

Dec 24, 2010 16:44:05 GMT -8 The Dancing Lock Guy said:

Dec 24, 2010 16:25:24 GMT -8 Robyn said:

it's because they really do believe in Christ and the birth, but they don't want to admit it

No, it's because it's an excuse to party, as Nightwalker said.

I agree there is a certain stigma with celebrating a tradition that you don't believe in - but because the materialistic aspects of Christmas are so commercialized, it has been ingrained into consumer culture.

Christmas has long ceased to be about celebrating Christ's "birth" - it has ultimately lost its meaning and has had no meaning except to act as an excuse to sell crap toys parent's children will no longer be playing with for the next year because they'll want the next cool toy.

People will also take any excuse to celebrate for the sake of celebrating - not because it's a tradition they embrace. The commercialization of Christmas has encouraged that to happen, which itself is a result of a once nonsecular culture becoming more and more secular.

It's interesting to note that this level of marketing has only really been experienced with Christmas and not something related like Easter.

Yeah, chocolates are still marketed - but the wide variety of what can be exchanged at Christmas time in the way of happiness and good faith in reciprocity was a jewel too good to pass up for people looking for profits.

So what are these people celebrating? It could be argued that they're appreciating the secular values, like anselm said, of bringing family together and giving to others. You don't need to be a Christian to be a good person and easily take a more humanist attitude towards the whole thing.

Is it bad that it has been commercialized? Perhaps, but if it has lost its way, perhaps celebraters should take a different attitude towards Christmas too then and allow Christmas to retain some of its original meaning by upholding those particular secular values.

Has that been kept up? I think so, in the end it doesn't matter if Christians originally celebrated it because Christians celebrate their holiday anyway, and their holiday is about giving to others - not giving to Christians only and being good to Christians only.

You could argue that you have to be a Christian to celebrate April Fools day too since that has originated from Christians mocking Pagan beliefs. Yet who celebrates April Fools day? Anyone set out for a good laugh.

As long as the central meaning of the holiday or event is not lost, it shouldn't matter who is celebrating it because they are helping uphold the principles that helped bring it into place. As long as that's done, no one can really argue that Christmas or any other Pagan holiday has been truly corrupted.

Yes, yes yes. I know all of that jazz. I know that Christmas as we know it Today (Christ's birth) was added by Christians, and as some put it, as a way to convert others to Christianity. Well regardless of why, it's the way it is.

Dec 24, 2010 16:43:38 GMT -8 jimjones said:

There has been a celebration at this time of year in this country for a long time before Christ was ever dreamt up, so why *** not.

We never said you couldn't. It just doesn't seem to make as much sense to us.

[The Dancing Lock Guy]

Dec 24, 2010 17:09:09 GMT -8 Robyn said:

Dec 24, 2010 16:43:38 GMT -8 jimjones said:

There has been a celebration at this time of year in this country for a long time before Christ was ever dreamt up, so why *** not.

We never said you couldn't. It just doesn't seem to make as much sense to us.

Actually what he means to say is that Christmas owes its origins to pagan rituals that also took place on the 25th of December The Christians didn't "add" Christmas at all, they merely ripped it off and changed the person whose birth they were celebrating.