[Debate] Staff Abusing Powers

[flamingfighter1510]

When do you think a staff member has pushed the boundaries of power on a forum?

I think a Staff member is abusing his powers when he is breaking the rules and constantly starting arguments with other Staff and members, believing that he is invincible.


Is a disagreement grounds for a warning or banning?

It would depend on the disagreement. If the member overeacted and started to throw insults and flame the Staff then yes. But if the member tried to resolve things peacefully or tried to avoid any fights then no. The member deserves respect for his/her views. If that happened on my proboard then I would instantly revoke the Staff member of his Power and temporarily ban him.


What about idle threats to warn or ban a member in order to forced them into submission with their own beliefs?

What a person believes is their own buisness. It is wrong to threaten someone because of their beliefs and views of things. I would revoke that person of his/her power.


What about deletion of your post and threads because they disagreed with what was posted?

If I found out I would strip the Staff member of his power. But it would depend on what was posted too, such as Racism or being sexist.

Were you ever accused of abusing your powers or a member who was a victim of an abusive staff.

Never

[Pipamonium]

I've asked my husband his opinions as well since we've been through a lot of bull in our proboards life. -- Both of us believe that banning is a last choice solution. We wont ban unless we've tried EVERYTHING else first and we're slow to hand out public warnings.

When do you think a staff member has pushed the boundaries of power on a forum?
ME: I believe a staff member has pushed the boundaries when they've stopped questioning if they're doing the right thing, if they're pushing the boundaries given them, before jumping in and throwing their weight around. I also think they're pushing the boundaries if they undermine other staff members, particularly ones above them.
HIM: It's hard to answer without giving an essay. It all depends on what the main administrator has dolled out for power to the staff members, what s/he expects of them. The general rule is when the main admin has noticed the staff member has gone beyond the intent of the rules.

Is a disagreement grounds for a warning or banning?
Me: Depends. Normally I'd say no, but there can be occasions where I would say it's OK, such as if a member gets belligerent over a disagreement.
HIM: No, unless it becomes anything beyond a civil discussion - especially if it becomes personal.

What about idle threats to warn or ban a member in order to force them into submission with their own beliefs?
ME: NEVER - I will never stand for a staff member to hand out idle threats especially to get someone to submit to their beliefs. I will leave a forum that allows it.
HIM: It's wrong, it's never right to force their beliefs on another. If someone were to join our forum (a Harry Potter RPG) and they spouted off about how much they hate Harry Potter and/or they RP-ed something that didn't fit we'd warn then ban them. But it wouldn't be over our beliefs vs. theirs it would be over the forum rules. Which state certain boards are for RP only and you MUST RP a character that could fit into the HP world.

What about deletion of your post and threads because they disagreed with what was posted?
ME: NEVER - the only time this would be OK is if the post was against TOS. Even so I've always encouraged my staff to bring the post/topic to my attention immediately and let me take care of it if they think there's a problem. If they believe it's bad enough I encourage them to move the topic to a hidden board until it can be assessed. The idea is to keep members from being able to say that the staff is abusing their power.
HIM: The only time I would delete a post (that otherwise followed the rules) would be a double post.

Have you had experience with this?
ME: I have never had a problem with one of MY staff abusing their power but I have had tons of issues with it on boards I'm a member of and/or have been fellow staff of. The worst I've seen was on an RP board that I was made co-admin (and was acting as the main admin while the owner was finishing school). One of the staff would regularly modify the posts of others to suit her needs, INCLUDING my own. She would hand out warnings and bannings left and right to anyone who disagreed with her in any way or tried to call her on her abuse. Every day I'd log in and un-ban everyone then do it again before I logged off for the night. I wasn't allowed to kick her off of the staff because she had made nice with the owner and had her cell phone number. I nearly got banned from the site because I sent her a warning about her attitude and she called the site owner and whined that I was abusing my powers by blocking her from abusing her powers since we were both administrators.
HIM: The main one I remember is the same girl (and another of the administrators) breaking the forum rules about god-moding - because who's going to censure the staff?

Were you ever accused of abusing your powers or a member who was a victim of an abusive staff.
ME: I've been accused of abusing my power plenty. I've never been found guilty of it by any admin I've worked under and I haven't been accused of it since I opened my own forum. I make it clear that I never play favourites, I never take sides. My members know if a fight breaks out that I will listen to every side and take everything in consideration, even if my best friend is fighting against the person who annoys me most it is just as likely that I'll find my friend in the wrong as I will the annoying person. I always give my staff very clear cut rules on what they are and are not allowed to do. I will come down hard on any member of my staff who so much as considers abusing their powers. On the same hand I will back up any judgement my staff makes. As long as it stays within the boundaries. For the most part I have my staff do my bidding and keep an eye out for people doing things they shouldn't. Generally speaking I have them send the person(s) in question a note letting them have a heads up then message me and let me know what's going on. I'll take over from there is further measures are necessary because I'd rather be accused of abuse than my staff. I'd also rather deal with abusive members then lose staff members because they can't handle it any more.
HIM: I've never been accused of abusing my powers. I've never directly been a victim of an abusive staff member.

[grieves and squick]

When do you think a staff member has pushed the boundaries of power on a forum?

Any time they use their powers to do something that breaks the rules already established, and which they should have agreed to before becoming staff.


Is a disagreement grounds for a warning or banning?

Why would it be? No one's going to agree perfectly with everybody else on any forum. "Agreeing to disagree" is fine. Pushing your beliefs on others or otherwise abusing others for their beliefs openly on the board {or on PMS} would break the common etiquette and behaviour rules of any decent board and they would be grounds for warnings or bans.

Ban members solely because they've stated they disagree with you is the perfect way to breed fear of staff on your board.

What about idle threats to warn or ban a member in order to forced them into submission with their own beliefs?

This is kind of like the above, isn't it? Just in lesser degree?

I see anyone doing that on any of MY boards, and THEY will get banned...and yes i've done it.


What about deletion of your post and threads because they disagreed with what was posted?

Posts should never be deleted or moved out of readable access unless they actually break the rules of your forum. Or do you want to run the place like a police state instead?


Have you had experience with this? Were you ever accused of abusing your powers or a member who was a victim of an abusive staff?

I've been accused of abuse of powers a few times, always by members who were making trouble for the whole board in general and flat out broke the rules until they were disciplined. Usually they godmoded, I said please don't godmode, they kept on doing it and/or argued and said they weren't, I ended up having to ban the person. Our rules clearly state that you do not argue with staff. Staff in turn are held to strict standards that forbid any of us from treating the rules in an arbitrary fashion or disciplining/banning anyone who has not yet broken a rule.

I've been on the receiving end of abuse by power-hungry staff, too...I have to say that's been a lot more unpleasant. Years later and it still bothers me.

my advice: never ban people or silence their opinions if they are not being abusive or breaking any rules. Never discipline people just because you don't like them...if the members see the staff acting above the rules they will begin to look on you with disdain, fear and disrespect.

[Moonz]

Jun 23, 2008 7:24:51 GMT -8 Enchant said:

Staff Abusing Powers, This seems to be a huge issue for many members.

There seems to be a continuous struggle regarding what the rights of a member are and the responsibilities of a staff member. When do you think a staff member has pushed the boundaries of power on a forum? Is a disagreement grounds for a warning or banning? What about idle threats to warn or ban a member in order to forced them into submission with their own beliefs? What about deletion of your post and threads because they disagreed with what was posted?

Have you had experience with this? Were you ever accused of abusing your powers or a member who was a victim of an abusive staff. Please keep in mind, that this isn't cyber bullying I am talking about, that is a whole different issue. This is about staff stepping over the line.

I also want to note, that while this does go on is some forums, it doesn't reflect all forums.

This is a big problem *nod* I had powers taken from me when i got frustrated. From my own expereinces, sometimes we will threaten so that the particular member will not do whatever it is again. But then again, isnt that why we have a warning system?

I have never been abused by a staff member before, but if i see a staff threatening, or abising their powers, i take their powers emmediatly. No warnings.

^^

[38special]

Nov 16, 2008 5:58:53 GMT -8 38special said:

Oct 18, 2008 9:24:52 GMT -8 38special said:

Correction: I am being effected. It seems that a member is checking my IP along with others on the board.

Update: I have been perma-banned from the forum I mentioned earlier. Any suggestions??

Latest: I was advised to report this problem to the Support Board staff and something will be done about the banning situation.
I reported it and ....... nothing happened. No investigation, no reply to my message, nothing.
The good news is the person causing the problem left and stays on his own board, for now that is.

[Quaalude]

When they Mass Email all Without my ok QC

[Kami]

Feb 7, 2009 12:55:31 GMT -8 Quaalude said:

When they Mass Email all Without my ok QC

As per board rules, please keep all posts at least four, well-thought out sentences or more. Thank you.

[I ♥ Adam Lambert!]

Feb 7, 2009 12:55:31 GMT -8 Quaalude said:

When they Mass Email all Without my ok QC

If you have a problem with your staff using the Email all button then why do you allow them to have that power?

More of my general thoughts on staff abusing powers.

That is one of the things that I dislike about some admins, they make you staff but obviously don't trust you because they either give you hardly any staff powers or responsibilities to carry out your duties or they do give you many powers but dislike it when you use your initiative and use them.

I'm very fortunate on the forum I'm staff on, we have never met in real life but she puts a great deal of trust in me and appreciates all the things I do to make the forum even better, and I think when a admin shows appreciation and respect for the staff they appoint, that encourages the staff to want to be the best mods they can be to make the admin proud.

I'm on around 6-7 forums in total and a few of them I've left, because yes, the mods are power hungry and let their personal issues and feelings get in the way of them doing their jobs properly and be unbiased, but the reason they are that way is because they've taken their cue from the admin, monkey see, monkey do. If the admin acts a certain way, even if it's unprofessional, the mods think they have the right to act the same which ruins it for everyone.

But the admin will always think they are right no matter the situation, so if they aren't a very good admin from the general members perspectives then their forums will not go the distance as the atmosphere will drive members away.

They need to remember that it's people like us, the members who make a forum what it is. I'm not saying that staff aren't important because they are, but members make numbers and a busy active forum with loads of members, the posts, the content and discussions, most of that will be members contributions. Without members, all thats left is a empty forum wasting bandwidth.

It's probably quite two faced because I'm sure that some of the admins who may have posted on this thread may say that they would warn or remove people as staff members if they step out of line, but would they destaff themselves for doing something wrong? Of course not, it's their forum so although they would punish or make an example of a bad mod on their forum, they wouldn't change their attitude because they could be guilty of doing the same thing but who is there to call them on it? I once called a admin on her terrible attitude because I had received around 17 PM's from upset members about how she was making them feel so I mentioned it being as calm and mature about it as I could, expressing concerns from the whole forum and what followed was a big joke and I found it hard to believe a 25 year old could act the way she did.

I just wish that ALL forums could have staff like the staff on Proboards Support I've been here quite a few months and I don't think I've ever seen anyone be less than professional when posting on a thread, and even though some disgruntled member may start accusing them or lashing out, they never let it affect them doing their jobs and never seem to hold grudges which is a great attitude to have.

Admittedly, I have been warned via PM about a few things but it's done in a way I don't feel angry or anything, I actually respect them for it even more. They can be friends with a fellow member and still demonstrate their roles of moderators and enforce rules when needed. Now thats a tough act, being equals as members/friends and also being someone's superior as staff and finding the balance. Not many staff manage it but the ones that do are amazing, just like the staff on here ;D

[Nacku]

One of the biggest problems is that sometimes some people are so wrapped up in their psychosis or box of thinking that even disagreeing with them and/or having your own opinions/reasons for anything is going to be seen as being in the wrong (or worse; you're labelled as something far worse). I've had a few disturbed people follow me around/stalk me and post crap to me and then about me. It does no good to express your own disappointments because most of the time people just don't care. I have very close friends that do care so I've been lucky, but that doesn't mean that I'm immune from the general rat b**tards out there.

One thing I have been able to avoid is further wrath, I suppose, because I've ignored so much and generally that helps stop alot of grief coming my way and they give up. Some people will claim to help you through a tough time but if you don't know them, it's best to not come to them. Apathetic people won't give any human compassion and sometimes you're just a means to an end for their agenda.

Board admins run by little and narrow-minded people who think of themselves as god's gift to everyone are best avoided. I can appreciate admins that might have "private" disagreements" with you and may even totally oppose you on some issues (politics, whatever) and still keep you as a member/keep you on.

[imo pop,]

i was a member on a forum and the co-admin was very rude to me so i left it. there loss as far as i am concerened.

this had never happened on any of my forums (actually one of my staff members didn't do anything then left when i removed her powers) and i have never been accussed of abusing my powers either.

staff absuse their powers when they change everything without asking the admin. i would (and do) always ask the main admin if they want a certain code in place or if they want something changed before i do it and if they say no i don't do it. simple.

i am totally non religous but i respect other religions so if there was ever a disagreement between religions i would tell anyone involved to set there belifes aside. if they contuined to bring it up again and again i would eventually ban them. if someone belives something and someone else doesn't agree with it thats fine. forums are not the place to argue about different belifes.

if i ever found a staff member deleting posts because they didn't like what was in them they would be off my staff team in the next ten minutes.

[Thundeh]

On this one site. Most staff abuse most of their powers. It is a warrior cat site and this person was made deputy of Shadowclan. This person has had this position for months now and they work hard for it. Now one of the staff wants to restart the site and take this person's position away and make her wait a very, very long time for it and this staff member isn't even the admin of the site!!! She never cares what the members think and she thinks that only the Staffs' opinions matter! She keeps saying the site is "inactive", but it has over 600 members and peple are posting all the time! She is selfish and she uses her admin powers to do what she wants when she wants!

[sdg753]

I once saw a proboards site that was all about romance... it looked okay at first but then I looked in the Cbox and four admins were talking about sex, drugs, and violence.... I stood up to them but they were like, "Thats nice. And now I can ban you from this site and delete all your messages."

[Kaythara]

When do you think a staff member has pushed the boundaries of power on a forum?

I consider the staff to exist for the purposes of providing support for other members and keeping things in order. When they go from nudging people into the wide path they should be following to leading them on in a single file chain gang, no good can come from it. Any staff member who is not an official admin has no business making any major decisions on his or her own and should not delete or modify the work of someone else without admin consent or at least screencapping the offending content to back up such actions. The admin is abusing power when no leeway is given to allow other members to have a little creative space and when personal opinion leads them to make deletions, modifications, and conduct bannings without real need.

Is a disagreement grounds for a warning or banning?

If disagreements are kept strictly in character, this is never acceptable. If out of character disagreements conflict heavily with in character actions and vice versa, it can be grounds for punishment. I believe that banning is something that should be used in cases where a member interferes with the site. Small disagreements happen all the time and should be worked out. Continuous conflict from people who refuse to try and redeem themselves are detrimental to those who follow the rules and it would be unfair to good members to keep them around.

What about idle threats to warn or ban a member in order to forced them into submission with their own beliefs?

This is usually more of an annoyance than anything, but it should send up red flags. Often, someone who goes around doing this is going to get worse anywhere from being annoying enough to chase people away to taking severely misguided action against posts and members they do not like.

What about deletion of your post and threads because they disagreed with what was posted?

Deletion should only ever be used on those posts and threads that are truly terrible. If a G-rated site contains a thread with graphic violent or sexual posts, that may be removed as it clearly has absolutely no place in that forum and should have been obvious to those involved in the thread. Also, I've seen threads that were for the sole purpose of haranguing someone. That, too, is detrimental to the site and should be removed. If personal opinion in all that is making a staff member delete the thread or post, it is an abuse of power.

Have you had experience with this? Were you ever accused of abusing your powers or a member who was a victim of an abusive staff?

I have never been accused of abusing power, but I have seen it happen in many different ways.

The very first RP site I joined gave staff powers not to people who earned the position, but to those who joined as faculty members in the RP school. All content in boards where their characters belonged such as their classes for professors and the interior of the school for the caretaker was also where they could mod without admin supervision. In a couple different cases there, powers were abused including posts being modified for in character arguments. A disagreeable student's post was changed to make the character agree with the professor instead. This set off a storm of students flooding that mod's boards with similar posts in hopes of getting proof via screen caps and relevant posting was abandoned until the mod was banned. On that same site, a student with grievances made a professor character for the sole purpose of gaining control over those she felt had wronged her.

The above was severely annoying, but there is a big case on admin abuse of power that showed me just how terrible disregard for members' feelings can be. She frequently became dissatisfied with how her plots were going and would delete the threads she was in and start all over again and again. Still liking the site despite this, most of us steered clear of taking part in larger plots (posting in threads that wouldn't kill our own complex, interlinking plans if she deleted and restarted them) and a couple people simply put up with the major rewrites. Then finally I showed up to the site one day to find it under maintenance mode. In the chat box and IMs, everyone was trying to figure out what was going on and she would only tell us that she decided the place needed to be thought out again. As an admin, I was able to log on to find that everything we had been writing for months had been moved into a massive jumble in an archive board; not even applications remained in place. She promised that the site would be better then ever, but lost interest immediately and gave up to go create a whole new one. Nobody followed.

The same admin also displayed an occasionally overbearing opinion on how we played. I could have understood it had we been taking her original idea and twisting it beyond recognition, but it was based on a fandom. She had her own thoughts on how the canon characters should behave and bugged people about it to the point where one would simply follow her lead rather thank think out his character and try to expand upon what we'd already seen them say and do in canon. I can take comfort from the fact that the things I had my canon doing, which she thought to be way off mark and stopped posting with me because of, ended up being strikingly similar to what he became later on in canon.

[hpmad]

Low staff you're not close with abusing powers: Warn them, and then boot them off staff for repeated offenses.

Friends: Honestly, just teach them what to and not to do. Shouldn't be a problem. The staff at my forum are all an excellent team and we work well together.

We had one staffer abuse his powers once and we quickly demoted him and suffered no other consequences. Nobody got angry and nobody stopped posting.

Don't be afraid to take action just don't be super rigid. Let staff take certain decisions into their own hands.

[Sic In Principio]

The problem of letting your friends be staff is that they would think that they have more power than they probably have since they are your friends and could get away with it. Personally, i have this one staff member who really is a nice guy, and was practically the co-founder, but he doesn't do much and talks wayyy too much about Staff only discussion. I really don't wnat to "fire" him, but i really want to...