Frameworks

[Aaron]

Frameworks make coding much easier, like they were intended.

<div id="container">text</div>


Pure JS:
document.getElementsById('container').innerHTML;

jQuery:
$('#container').html();

These essentially perform the same task - get the contents of an element with an id of container.

While frameworks give the developer less work to do, it also prevents them from learning the backend of what's really happening. Let's say a user without a background in Javascript is first introduced to jQuery. They will learn the jQuery method, but will not necessarily know what jQuery is really doing to the page to perform that action.

Because of a framework's simplicity, pure Javascript is hardly ever used by the developer, it is only used by the developers of the framework.

Is this going to lead to higher demand of users who actually know the pure form of a programming language in the future?

[RedBassett]

I think most JQuery programmers know Javascript. Just because JQuery makes the DOM easier to accessand provides some nice functions, it doesn't replace the need to understand Javascript syntax, variables, functions, classes/objects, etc.

[Aaron]

While this is true for the basics of any programming language, what are your thoughts when it gets more complex?

For example, jQuery AJAX in AJAX:

    $.ajax({ });

How would someone determine what is happening with this capability?

[Jordan]

It's up to the programmers to be curious and to look at the framework source to see how it works, but it's very true that there will be many who never truly learn the language. However, for many, this isn't necessary if they just need to get a few scripts working on a site. Not everyone needs to learn the language at a deep level, and the framework is there to save them time so they don't have to deal with the complexities of the language. For those who do understand the language at a deep level, they still save a ton of time but can also do more advanced things if they need to.

[coolcoolcool]

To be fair, I work with someone who has only ever used JQuery to program with Javascript. He is inexperienced and makes constant redundant JQuery statements and frequently runs into problems that he can't solve. However, that is probably only because he hasn't done a lot of JQuery either.

I find when I'm using JQuery, I only really resort to it when it makes an otherwise overly complicated series of statements much simpler and cleaner or if I'm handling events or animations. It is loaded into most of our pages by default, so it doesn't cost me anything to use it so sparingly. I have a better understanding of core javascript, because that's how I learnt to use it, so that's how I do most of my scripting.

I feel like I should start getting more comfortable with JQuery though. One thing that annoys me to no end about javascript is how it puts text nodes in between elements all over the document. Without JQuery you end up getting ridiculous statements like document.getElementById("anID").firstChild.nextSibling.nextSibling.nextSibling.nextSibling.firstChild when all you want is anID's third child's first child. It's ugly and hard to read.

And obviously with all the random add-ons like calenders for example, it makes scripting much more robust.