Feature Suggestion for Themes

[Brian]

Michael already addressed a solution for number 1 at the end of his first post, but for this one:

Aug 27, 2014 18:34:16 GMT -8 @khristian said:

Users mess with the HTML within the layout templates or CSS within the Style Sheet trying to change a color or image, ruin it, and then ask me to fix it. Or, "why isn't your theme working right?"

You're under absolutely no obligation to provide support for when users make their own custom changes to your themes. If they break it because they didn't follow the instructions properly that's completely on them if you so choose. The sections are labeled as advanced for a reason, and the extent to which you provide support for your theme is entirely up to you.

That's what they call voiding the warranty.

I don't offer support for changes made to the Build tab of any of my plugins that I didn't explicitly specify, but it's there for those who know what they're doing so they can get the most out of the plugin.

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

See my reply before yours about #1.

Regarding support- if the staff of Proboards Support stopped giving support because of the poor intelligence of users that do not pay attention to the red warnings in the Admin Panel and/or read the numerous guides you have for navigation the forums in the Help Guide, what would happen? People would stop using Proboards.

[blc]

Aug 27, 2014 15:35:44 GMT -8 Michael said:

Hi,

One of our rules that we always try to live by here at PB is "Never implement functionality that would take functionality away from users" (users generally being administrators). From your perspective I do see how it seems unfair that we would be "protecting" plugin creators but not theme creators. However, us "locking" plugins to a specific creator does not remove functionality from the end user at all. Locked plugins interact with other plugins for example. There isn't anything that we've taken from the end user.

Even if we were able to lock templates (and themes) in a satisfactory way, we couldn't hide the source, or be able to make it so that the CSS can't be loaded without breaking a lot of other stuff. Us adding new variables to the template would mean that theme creators would have to go and update every theme that they've made, and subsequently would mean that all of the users of those themes would have to update their themes as well. It just wouldn't be feasible.

Something we could consider would be making a non-editable field that credits the author with the creation of the theme! We're open to suggestions but the process of locking down themes to be un-editable isn't something that we have plans of implementing.

I don't know if this is plausible or not, but I like the idea of a non-editable field for the creator of the theme to list credits to those that helped with graphics, template mods and other coding. Have it where the only person that can edit it is the author.

But, perhaps have sub fields that also can't be changed, but each time its used another one appears for the next person, so that if the theme is altered, someone needs to fill in one of these sub fields indicating that the theme has been altered. Again, only the author of each change can edit each altered sub field.

I know... why do that? Because what is appealing to one person, may not be appealing to another and as a theme goes through various hands and changes at some point the originating author may no longer want their name attached to that theme if it has been altered and changed so much that to them it has become hideous.

I don't know if its possible but perhaps when its in the library, authors can look and if they see that some theme has become something that they no longer want to be associated with they can go in and opt out of that incarnation of said theme.

Just tossing ideas out there.

@khristian

[blc]

Sept 7, 2014 11:09:36 GMT -8 Brian said:

Michael already addressed a solution for number 1 at the end of his first post, but for this one:

Aug 27, 2014 18:34:16 GMT -8 @khristian said:

Users mess with the HTML within the layout templates or CSS within the Style Sheet trying to change a color or image, ruin it, and then ask me to fix it. Or, "why isn't your theme working right?"

You're under absolutely no obligation to provide support for when users make their own custom changes to your themes. If they break it because they didn't follow the instructions properly that's completely on them if you so choose. The sections are labeled as advanced for a reason, and the extent to which you provide support for your theme is entirely up to you.

That's what they call voiding the warranty.

I don't offer support for changes made to the Build tab of any of my plugins that I didn't explicitly specify, but it's there for those who know what they're doing so they can get the most out of the plugin.

That's nice in theory but not everyone has the same capabilities. I sort of do my themes and hope no one asks for any major changes because that isn't my area. That is when I come to you guys! LOL

I hope you fine people in support won't stop helping those of us that get in over our heads.

[Brian]

Sept 7, 2014 11:12:26 GMT -8 @khristian said:

See my reply before yours about #1.

Regarding support- and if the staff of Proboards Support didn't give support for their creations, what would happen? People would stop using Proboards.

I never made mention of binary overall availability for support. Only selective support for available sections of the theme.

Not providing support for sections you didn't specify is no different than locking up the editing areas of the theme and consequently not providing support for those sections. They both result in you providing the same amount of support for the same areas.

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

Taking in account the issues brought up by Brian, Michael, Martyn Dale, and David Clark, here is my revised request:

Create a $[credit] variable that Theme authors can place anywhere within the Forum Wrapper, edit within the Theme Settings tab by adding unlimited amount of text and links using HTML or UBBC.

Set an option to lock by the author within the Theme Settings tab so the change log, description, etc. cannot be touched and/or remove all options from that tab if locked but Permissions and "Forum Title". Also include a link to the help link if the author provided one but not an option to change it.

If the option to lock the Theme Description is set to "enabled" and a user attempts to delete said $[credits] variable from the Forum Wrapper and save- a pop up error stating something along the lines of, "The author of the Theme you are using does not allow the removal of their credits." will appear and the save will fail.

Example of Theme Settings tab (unlocked): click
Example of Theme Settings tab (locked): click

[Brian]

Sept 7, 2014 11:25:51 GMT -8 blc said:

Sept 7, 2014 11:09:36 GMT -8 Brian said:

Michael already addressed a solution for number 1 at the end of his first post, but for this one:

You're under absolutely no obligation to provide support for when users make their own custom changes to your themes. If they break it because they didn't follow the instructions properly that's completely on them if you so choose. The sections are labeled as advanced for a reason, and the extent to which you provide support for your theme is entirely up to you.

That's what they call voiding the warranty.

I don't offer support for changes made to the Build tab of any of my plugins that I didn't explicitly specify, but it's there for those who know what they're doing so they can get the most out of the plugin.

That's nice in theory but not everyone has the same capabilities. I sort of do my themes and hope no one asks for any major changes because that isn't my area. That is when I come to you guys! LOL

I hope you fine people in support won't stop helping those of us that get in over our heads.

The two aren't comparable in that respect.

Theme creators do their work on a voluntary basis and are under no binding agreement to provide support for their creations. The support team is contractually obligated to provide you with their service as that's the purpose of their employment here at ProBoards.

[Boy_Wonder]

There's also a difference here. Proboards staff seem to be understanding THAT people will want to edit things and break things unintentionally and are willing to give up time to offer support. There is NOTHING saying you have to do so and you seem to think that if you won't offer support for if people break your templates and themes then proboards shouldn't seemingly. However there is absolutely nothing stating that you have to provide support if you do not want to, so I'm not sure why you even brought up PBS.

I'd love a box in theme information locked to the creators and you could then insert an id'd div wherever for the copyright to show up

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

I made the analogy of PB staff not giving support to point out that if I don't give support for my creations people will most likely not use them. Why do I care? Well- I make them so people WILL use them. It was a simple analogy, don't over analyse it.

[blc]

Sept 7, 2014 11:34:10 GMT -8 Brian said:

Sept 7, 2014 11:25:51 GMT -8 blc said:

That's nice in theory but not everyone has the same capabilities. I sort of do my themes and hope no one asks for any major changes because that isn't my area. That is when I come to you guys! LOL

I hope you fine people in support won't stop helping those of us that get in over our heads.

The two aren't comparable in that respect.

Theme creators do their work on a voluntary basis and are under no binding agreement to provide support for their creations. The support team is contractually obligated to provide you with their service as that's the purpose of their employment here at ProBoards.

Thanks Brian. I think those that create things, whether its plug ins or themes or codes, generally try to offer support as best they can.

I sometimes worry about asking for help in support for something that isn't your problem, like if I can't get something right in a theme. I know you guys have more pressing issues in support.

I do want to add that I understand Trinity's point. I have watched some of the theme threads with trepidation. Alisha's Love Struck is a perfect example. There were plenty of directions given in the first post and I watched because I downloaded the theme. I really wanted to use it, but reading all the change requests that were being asked only emphasized the dauntless task of trying to make that theme something I could use. It seems geared toward an RPG type site and to try and get rid of secondary avatars and other items again geared towards RPG sites, and spending a lot of time on my own trying to follow directions given to others in that thread, I realized I just couldn't use it and how its kind of important to to pick themes that are suited to your genre. But it made me also realize how much time Alisha had spent in just that one thread trying to help people.

As Trinity pointed out, if you don't help people modify themes to their needs, they won't use it. So I do see her point. Its kind of a catch 22 thing.

The great thing about PB though is there is almost always someone somewhere at PB that can and will help you. You all here in support are top notch, the plug in developers are wonderful. The crew here is great and puts some major companies to shame. Then there are the members that have a wealth of knowledge to add to the support base and it just makes PB unparalleled in my opinion. So, I didn't mean to suggest that support would kick people to the curb that wasn't my intention.

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

Alright- I think I finally edited that post enough, haha. Final and revised request: support.proboards.com/post/6008110/thread

I believe that it is not only doable but doesn't take away from users in anyway. It only adds to Theme Creators.

[Wormopolis]

Perhaps the idea of something in a compromise of a CSS section that CANT be edited by a user?

[Alanna 🥀🖤]

Sept 7, 2014 12:58:49 GMT -8 Wormopolis said:

Perhaps the idea of something in a compromise of a CSS section that CANT be edited by a user?

That doesn't allow customization with styles or links. I honestly believe what I suggested is the best possible way to do it and include customization and protection.

[Stinky666]

Sept 7, 2014 11:32:55 GMT -8 @khristian said:

Taking in account the issues brought up by Brian, Michael, Martyn Dale, and David Clark, here is my revised request:

Create a $[credit] variable that Theme authors can place anywhere within the Forum Wrapper, edit within the Theme Settings tab by adding unlimited amount of text and links using HTML or UBBC.

Set an option to lock by the author within the Theme Settings tab so the change log, description, etc. cannot be touched and/or remove all options from that tab if locked but Permissions and "Forum Title". Also include a link to the help link if the author provided one but not an option to change it.

If the option to lock the Theme Description is set to "enabled" and a user attempts to delete said $[credits] variable from the Forum Wrapper and save- a pop up error stating something along the lines of, "The author of the Theme you are using does not allow the removal of their credits." will appear and the save will fail.

Example of Theme Settings tab (unlocked): click
Example of Theme Settings tab (locked): click

I've read through this thread over the past few days, and I'm not going to say too much because I can't be bothered quite frankly. However, what I will say is, the above seems like a fantastic solution, and I really don't see why this couldn't (or rather wouldn't) be added. Is it genuinely for some proper reasoning, or are you guys just thinking "ah, too much work"?

I requested this a long time ago, and I honestly can't remember what was said in response. Not sure if it was declined, or put as a feature request. So, unfortunately I think it's going to end up being a no, no matter what. Which I really do hope not.

One thing that I don't understand is the fact that unless given the permission to, we can not edit an author's plugin. So we can't then mess up the coding and come get help because it's not working. The same logic SHOULD apply for themes, surely, since it too is a BIG part of a forum's aesthetics/appearance.



TL;DR -  the above is a really good solution and I am confused why it wouldn't be added.




I am not trying to cause trouble at all, you guys surely must know this by now, but I think this post may come across as angry or similar, but I'm just tired. So please don't think I am starting anything bad. Some of us are just passionate about certain things/suggestions that we'd love to see implemented, especially when they would benefit a whole 'type' of community - the designers..

[Smangii]

I'm loving @khristian 's idea.

However, a feature like that doesn't even have to let us add HTML or CSS (maybe some links as an exception). Of course, it would be a nice touch, but styling my copyright notice doesn't impact the theme and the fact that I don't want people claiming it as theirs. I'd be perfectly find with having a $[credit] just say in plain text who made the theme, and have it show under/over/near the current ProBoards copyright, see the blue below:

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The link can either be A) ProBoards Theme Library Link, B) Theme Support link provided in theme settings, C) Entered by the theme creator in a separate box?

Not sure if that complicates things, and I'm sorry if it does, but trying to show that you can re-use current parts to get what we're asking for.