What is and isn't Allowed

[Tanya]

I'm struggling with gaining members for several reasons and none based off what is currently written on my forum. I know others struggle as well so I thought a thread where we can all discuss what is and isn't allowed sounded like a good plan. I wasn't exactly sure where to place this so I hope this is okay. If not, please move it where it needs to go. I'd love to hear from the red's on the below..

I have a writers forum and no not an RP forum. RP's aren't even part of my forum. I never really cared for RP's. (no offense) I only have 4 members including myself. Coming up with content on a note that everything has to be PG-13 and not truly knowing the extent of that meaning makes it hard to actually post anything much less write. 

This is the first platform I've been on that has given me pause on what to write and what to allow. I was and still am part of another platform with very similar rules and guidelines but some exceptions to the rules were allowed. Meaning as long as smut wasn't being written and violence wasn't turned into something except-able, it was allowed. But I'm unsure if it's allowed here as well. I have had forums shutdown before because of writing content in stories so I am being 'overly cautious' here. Sadly, the last forum that was shutdown, on another platform, was due to an autobiography about my life. It consisted of things I went through growing up such as rape and other forms of abuse. I do have it up on my forum but it is hidden for now because I don't know if it is allowed. (It needs a ton of work too but that is besides the point) 

Currently I have a member who is willing to share a Novel he wrote that didn't get into 'paper'. It is a rare treat to ever have an actual novel shared on any forum but I'm at a pause with it because it does include 'Adult Content' No, not smut so much as an intimate activity shared between 2 people. I never did understand how intimacy can be considered smut. I know wording plays a huge role in that so in this case, it is the softer side of things. Most details are left out. There is an actual plot to the novel after all. Only porn-type-stuff doesn't have a plot and that I agree, shouldn't be allowed. That isn't the case with this writer. How would I know for sure if it would be except-able or not? (would I send an email to a red so they can skim a read thru? and decide from there) Would it be except-able if placed behind a curtain ie. placed in a forum not seen by guests? 

Now you see why I am stuck. I know for a fact 80% of my own stories are not PG-13. Most are not even R. So those are not allowed at all except on places designed for such things. But there are a ton of stories and books out there that draw on a fine line of except-able and the Novel I speak of is one of those. Yes, I've read it or most of it, rather.

As to the lack of members bit.. at first I thought it was due to advertising too soon but I don't think that is it. Even old boards change things around and I don't lack content either. I don't have a whole lot but I do have enough for the small amount of people on the forum currently. So.. I'm at a loss.... perhaps because those who write prefer to write RP's? I don't know.

[Kami]

As a general rule, if you would be able to see something in a PG13 movie, you should be able to post it on PB. I know that it isn't as explicit as you would like but it is a good rule to follow if you look at the MPAA guidelines:

PG-13: Parents Strongly Cautioned.
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13
A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them. A PG-13 motion picture may go beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category. The theme of the motion picture by itself will not result in a rating greater than PG-13, although depictions of activities related to a mature theme may result in a restricted rating for the motion picture. Any drug use will initially require at least a PG-13 rating. More than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating, but such nudity in a PG-13 rated motion picture generally will not be sexually oriented. There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. A motion picture's single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive, initially requires at least a PG-13 rating. More than one such expletive requires an R rating, as must even one of those words used in a sexual context. The Rating Board nevertheless may rate such a motion picture PG-13 if, based on a special vote by a two-thirds majority, the Raters feel that most American parents would believe that a PG-13 rating is appropriate because of the context or manner in which the words are used or because the use of those words in the motion picture is inconspicuous.

Sending an email to an admin here wouldn't do much good, because it winds up becoming a slippery slope: you send an email asking if X is allowed, someone else asks if Y is allowed and on and on and on til you've got people going "okay but is this [specific scenario] okay??" and with over 700,000 hosted forums and many more members you can see how that would rapidly become a full time job.

As for the lack of members, there's honestly no sure fire way to tell why. Maybe people don't like your theme. Maybe you're not advertising enough for bots to pick up your URL frequently so it'll show up on google searches for writing forums. Maybe your rules are offputting. I don't know. It also depends on how old your forum is -- I see a lot of admins sighing because "I made a forum two months ago and it's not getting members!" and honestly barring some very fortunate coincidences that's not nearly enough time for a forum to get up and running.

Admittedly, a 'writing forum' on PB will probably tend to be less successful than an RP; while the tasks are similar, forums are all about interactions, which is essential to a good RP. A writing forum is less about interacting and more about showcasing (perhaps with some sections for C&C / review) so it is already a less involved activity. A quick google search for writing forums bring up several results but most of them have been around for literally YEARS at this point, and they are not restricted in the kinds of content they can post (ie: self-hosted). Not to mention that places like deviantArt, AO3, ff.net, and so on exist already.

[Tanya]

I wouldn't have thought to use the movie end of the scope for the written even if the rating system stemmed from that to be begin with. Based off that quote however, it would seem most all written goes beyond the PG-13 basis and into more of R for books and stories that include an 'intimate factor'. The bold bit there... would be saying NO PB board should have anything sexual written or otherwise on it.

Meh, seems like my forum isn't going to take off at all. It was suggested before I ever made the forum for me to use a site/page for writing rather than a forum. I am seeing why that was said better now even though I didn't want to just share my own but have others sharing as well. I don't have nor want children on my forum. (even if my own children when they were 13 knew more about sex than I did) Adults well over 21 are part of my forum. 18 and up is my preference. Much easier to handle. Content-wise is bound to have some sexual nature even if its mild. None is like saying: "You can love me but don't touch me beyond hugging and no french kissing either." Or "You can only be naked from the bathroom to the bedroom; put some clothes on."

Yeah, didn't think that would work. Email is fine when you only have a small group to attend to but on the larger scale... Yep, that all makes perfect sense. I was just screaming for ideas is all. I love writing and having an actual author as part of my forum is awesome but if he can't share... *sad face*

haha, I've seen discussions written like that. Theme? I have several so I doubt that would be a problem. I keep it simple because I can't stand the forums with all those boxes everywhere. Those don't look like a forum to me. They look like a website and can be just as complicated to maneuver. Ah, yep, I agree with not advertising enough. I only shared the forum in my sig other places and the 3 sections here that show my forum. Advertising isn't my strong suit and can be just as time consuming as the actual forum too. Rules? are basic. I hate tons of rules. My forum is just under the 2 month marker so I find that bit you said funny. Not a bad thing, just funny. I've seen forums take off and gain members in less than a couple weeks time but I also know content/theme/about seldom factored into that. They just knew a ton of people who also knew a ton of people.

I was afraid that would be said. I've seen it here already. Tons of RP boards and very few writing boards. Some of those RP boards are very busy while others... not so much. In the RP world, topic becomes !Important. Tho, people wanting to brain-storm ideas away from the RP forums will always be welcome. I like how most go about putting their ideas together even if the actual RP isn't interesting to me. One disagreement Kami.... writers forums if done correctly ARE interactive. It's both as you know from seeing the writing forums that have been around for 15 or more years. Otherwise, they are not a forum at all. They might as well have a writers board/site instead. Oh, that is true. Most of them have paid-no-limited-content-boards. I forgot about self-hosted. Yep, knew that about deviantArt and ff.net. There are tons more also. Kami, what is AO3?

Thank you Kami for your response. I appreciate it. You are by far one of the most helpful members around here.

Looks like I need to revamp my forum for the 3rd time already. I need to also put a Guide together so members know what is and isn't allowed. Most I know are outside of proboards. I think I'll even use that quote you shared . If you have time, I'd appreciate a review from you. Don't hold anything back. (hope that request is allowed, if not, I can remove it)

[Kami]

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

I wouldn't have thought to use the movie end of the scope for the written even if the rating system stemmed from that to be begin with. Based off that quote however, it would seem most all written goes beyond the PG-13 basis and into more of R for books and stories that include an 'intimate factor'. The bold bit there... would be saying NO PB board should have anything sexual written or otherwise on it.

Well, yeah. You're not supposed to have anything sexual written on a PB forum. This has always been the case. You're welcome to allude to it, or "fade to black" (as is the general recommendation for writing / RP forums), but sex (and sexual acts) don't fall within the TOS. If you see free PB forums with this content then please be aware that they're simply breaking the TOS (either knowingly or unknowingly) and the reason they're up is simply because they haven't been reported to, or discovered by the abuse department.

Shrug. Personally I prefer most of my literature to be without that genre of content so I feel like I'm probably in the minority when it comes to writers ;x

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

haha, I've seen discussions written like that. Theme? I have several so I doubt that would be a problem. I keep it simple because I can't stand the forums with all those boxes everywhere. Those don't look like a forum to me. They look like a website and can be just as complicated to maneuver. Ah, yep, I agree with not advertising enough. I only shared the forum in my sig other places and the 3 sections here that show my forum. Advertising isn't my strong suit and can be just as time consuming as the actual forum too. Rules? are basic. I hate tons of rules. My forum is just under the 2 month marker so I find that bit you said funny. Not a bad thing, just funny. I've seen forums take off and gain members in less than a couple weeks time but I also know content/theme/about seldom factored into that. They just knew a ton of people who also knew a ton of people.

I had a look at your theme and even if you don't like the boxes and whatever that make a forum look more "website"-like, from where I'm sitting I think your default theme (the one that potential members see) leaves quite a lot to be desired. I'll give you a proper review when I have the time, though I am going to have a busy few weeks and I can't guarantee when that will happen.

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

I was afraid that would be said. I've seen it here already. Tons of RP boards and very few writing boards. Some of those RP boards are very busy while others... not so much. In the RP world, topic becomes !Important. Tho, people wanting to brain-storm ideas away from the RP forums will always be welcome. I like how most go about putting their ideas together even if the actual RP isn't interesting to me.

I just generally don't think that writing forums are as appealing on a wide scale like RPs are, as content-sharing sites of a different nature.

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

One disagreement Kami.... writers forums if done correctly ARE interactive.

I don't disagree with this. I'm saying that they are less interactive than an RP. An RP, to use more narrative-oriented terms, is interactive storytelling. There's one story, with multiple authors working together. Writing forums tend to have multiple, separate stories with single authors. The interaction is less because while you may interact personally, the stories and narratives do not intersect. Does this make sense?

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

Kami, what is AO3?

AO3 is short for "Archive Of Our Own"; it is similar to fanfiction.net.

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

Thank you Kami for your response. I appreciate it. You are by far one of the most helpful members around here.

You're welcome, and I appreciate the compliment (:

May 21, 2017 10:27:50 GMT -8 Tanya said:

If you have time, I'd appreciate a review from you. Don't hold anything back. (hope that request is allowed, if not, I can remove it)

As I said I'll be more than happy to do so when I have the time (:

[Tanya]

Ah, here we go. Now we can talk back and forth properly. Love the quotes button but only for this purpose lol

Well, yeah. You're not supposed to have anything sexual written on a PB forum. This has always been the case. You're welcome to allude to it, or "fade to black" (as is the general recommendation for writing / RP forums), but sex (and sexual acts) don't fall within the TOS. If you see free PB forums with this content then please be aware that they're simply breaking the TOS (either knowingly or unknowingly) and the reason they're up is simply because they haven't been reported to, or discovered by the abuse department.



Shrug. Personally I prefer most of my literature to be without that genre of content so I feel like I'm probably in the minority when it comes to writers ;x

The "fade to black" would work with stories and such too. Never said I saw forums like that...... Erm.. moving along..
But when it comes to published works like Novels, that isn't possible. When it comes to real-life events, it isn't possible either by traditional means. Especially if the event is wrapped around rape. I do know that Narration can take care of that so I will be sure to re-write one of my own so it includes the narrated bits to keep it from being removed or my board from being removed even. I'd be extremely angry over such a thing yet again. I know help forums that write on the topic with no issues and yet I have had the worst luck. Some people/platforms, have no heart. 

Oh, no need to be so nonchalant about it! To each their own as they say, right? But no, you are not in the minority. You are however in a personable age group. Oddly, I can't think of the stat atm. Probably because I giggled reading that bit and plumb forgot. But hey, I smiled so it is all good.

I had a look at your theme and even if you don't like the boxes and whatever that make a forum look more "website"-like, from where I'm sitting I think your default theme (the one that potential members see) leaves quite a lot to be desired. I'll give you a proper review when I have the time, though I am going to have a busy few weeks and I can't guarantee when that will happen.

OUCH!!!!! That hurt!!! It is my first theme here on proboards. ~Rudetastic behavior results in a verbal spanking.~ Or a future theme request for those who like all those boxes. You do make themes, yes? Nice to know you had an idea of what I meant though. I'm not good at explaining. I'll put up a lighter theme now that I also did and yes, it is plain like the current one. 

I just generally don't think that writing forums are as appealing on a wide scale like RPs are, as content-sharing sites of a different nature.

You are in the majority there it would seem. *cries*

I don't disagree with this. I'm saying that they are less interactive than an RP. An RP, to use more narrative-oriented terms, is interactive storytelling. There's one story, with multiple authors working together. Writing forums tend to have multiple, separate stories with single authors. The interaction is less because while you may interact personally, the stories and narratives do not intersect. Does this make sense?

Thank you ma'am for explaining. I noted the 'tend' also. I get the impression you are aware of stories with 2 authors just from that. Yep, that made perfect sense. 

AO3 is short for "Archive Of Our Own"; it is similar to fanfiction.net.

Ah, okay. Thank you.

You're welcome, and I appreciate the compliment (:

As I said I'll be more than happy to do so when I have the time (:

The compliment was earned so no need for thanx As to the review, whenever time allows it. Just bookmark this thread or my forum itself if you want to. I can remind you if needed or wanted. You said a few weeks so If haven't heard back from you, say mid June, I'll mention it?

On a note from above... I might request a theme to be made with all those boxes so you are not so harsh in your review of it. I know mine are plain. It is how I like it. If members want something more, potential ones or actual, I have no problem asking for help to get them what they want. 

[Kami]

Nah, I don't personally think that you NEED 'all those boxes'. It is 100% possible to have a very well done forum design without having that. I've personally designed a theme that makes minimal use of 'boxes', and several themes that don't use them at all (they're just not for public consumption). It's just that I'm a web developer by trade, so my critique of forums is based on professional experience and contemporary design standards. Please don't think that I am being harsh when I say it leaves much to be desired -- I don't mean that to signify something has been done wrong, but that more can be done, does that make sense?

Unfortunately, I don't have much to add regarding permitted content; I agree with you that the TOS is not particularly accepting of literature -- written for proboards display or as novels -- that exceed the content rating. However, the TOS has been in place since ... 2003 at the least that stated these content rules so it's not something new on PB's end. From a provider standpoint, the TOS has to cater to the lowest common denominator; in this case, the youngest age that is permitted on their service, which is 13. As such, all content on PB's free service must be acceptable for that demographic.

The reason I don't feel writing forums are as appealing as an RP forum is because I don't particularly want C&C from strangers. When I post my work -- whether fanfiction or original -- I request C&C from people I know, or otherwise don't want C&C at all. Does that make sense? RP doesn't leave much room for C&C (since that's not the focus) and I can get that from my friends privately (my neighbour/close friend is a professional editor, for instance), and otherwise I can simply post my works to tumblr / ff.net / AO3 / etc.

The handful of writing forums that are around were able to get an early start on a fairly niche interest and you'll have to work for just as long, if not longer, in order to be successful.

[Tanya]

Ah, a pro then. Nah, I'm fine then. Honestly, I've seen some of the plainer themes to choose from and wanted only a little less plain. I don't know how to make it better. I thought it was better than the default. *shrugs* Contemporary design.. uh oh, I lack any knowledge there. And yes, that makes sense.

No worries, part of making this thread was to better understand the TOS. I came from a different platform and its own TOS is similar but a ton of boards break the rules and only certain percentage gets shutdown. I've seen some just get asked to remove certain content and the reasoning usually comes along with it. Done private through the admin area too. (this part seems fair) Here the rules seem more enforced and I just don't want to get on one day and my board be gone because a member or I wrote something that broke the rules. I've put a lot of time into my forum even if it is less than 2 months old and I don't mean in the content either. That took too little time so far. It would bother me to see it go.

Oh, I see. I prefer strangers for C&C. In that we differ. It does make sense though. I believe a correction board is the only thing I haven't added to the forum yet. Raw material is best on a forum anyway. Once a work is done, it is too easily stolen if that make sense.

Thanks for the heads up there. I'm inclined to think longer because there really isn't much of a call for writers forums anymore but it has been something I wanted for a very long time. (since a friend put a forum together for me and even though she set it up for me to 'own', I only ever used it to write on. I miss it actually. That was about 12 years ago) I was... more confident back then. A little kick in the rear ever so often and I'm sure I'll regain that confidence. Thank you for taking so much time out of your day today for me.

If anyone else wants to comment they can. I think I have the bulk of what I asked well covered thanks to Kami now.