Photobucket - Please Read

[moonbeam]

Jul 12, 2017 23:25:19 GMT -8 Tanya said:

Meh, well photobucket caught the reminder of my accounts today. It's been crazy trying to sort everything out. I went forum to forum no matter what platform they were fixing way too much lol. Now if I could get one of our wonderful admins/reds to check and make sure there isn't anything I missed on my forum.... *whistles softly*

And why would they spend their valuable time on this?
Maybe put photobucket in your censored words list and call it good.

[Kami]

Jul 13, 2017 7:24:28 GMT -8 andrea1985 said:

Jun 30, 2017 14:03:02 GMT -8 Kami said:

I want to state also that if you are looking for a replacement for photobucket, please read the sites' ToS thoroughly! I've already seen at least two suggestions for replacements where the service terms are the same as imgur and photobucket (i.e. not using them as a content delivery network / disallowing hotlinking), so a read prior to signing up will save you from future stress!

Good point Kami.

I know photobucket is causing a lot of stress on a lot of forums.

But no need to jump to another site with the same TOS.

Well, yeah. If you read my first post in this thread (which is the second post of the thread overall) I very much advocate users reading the TOS of a possible replacement host because unfortunately, a lot of them do have the same policy as Photobucket (though without the price tag). I am in no way advocating people pick a host on the fly, but rather that picking a host carefully will have to be done regardless of whether or not they find a "work around" for Photobucket's block.

[Scott]

Jul 12, 2017 23:25:19 GMT -8 Tanya said:

Meh, well photobucket caught the reminder of my accounts today. It's been crazy trying to sort everything out. I went forum to forum no matter what platform they were fixing way too much lol. Now if I could get one of our wonderful admins/reds to check and make sure there isn't anything I missed on my forum.... *whistles softly*

I do monitor this thread to stay informed on how the photobucket situation is impacting our members, and to also update our External Resources list with image hosting sites as new services are recommended and their merits discussed.  


Sorry to say it's not our responsibility to review forums for photobucket links/images.  However if you encounter one of their 'please update your account' images and are unable to find the source, create a thread on support with a link to the thread/post/profile/etc. where you are encountering their image and we will assist in locating it.

[andrea1985]

Jul 13, 2017 7:29:40 GMT -8 Kami said:

Jul 13, 2017 7:24:28 GMT -8 andrea1985 said:

Good point Kami.

I know photobucket is causing a lot of stress on a lot of forums.

But no need to jump to another site with the same TOS.

Well, yeah. If you read my first post in this thread (which is the second post of the thread overall) I very much advocate users reading the TOS of a possible replacement host because unfortunately, a lot of them do have the same policy as Photobucket (though without the price tag). I am in no way advocating people pick a host on the fly, but rather that picking a host carefully will have to be done regardless of whether or not they find a "work around" for Photobucket's block.

I did read it, Kami. I just decided to quote you on this post. 

I am seeing people going crazy because of this photpbucket  thing.

Wanting to hire lawyers and/or contact the FBI.

They have no legal case.

At a stretch there is a tort called intentional infliction of emotional distress which has 4 elements.
But I do not think it will fly. Esp the 4th element.

There is no breach of contract...they maybe did not read the TOS but that is on them.

I have posted this where people are having nervous breakdowns, writing horrible things on the FB page of photobucket, leaving them nasty messages on their phone line, faxing them all sorts of things and even contacting the people here and dumping on them to the point of getting banned from here.

I stilt see that PB emblem on some forums.  The admin has not figured out how to get rid of it. 

Or empty Avatars because members are too lazy to upload an appropriate Avatar.

People have to move on and just be careful next time.

[Kami]

Jul 13, 2017 8:19:37 GMT -8 andrea1985 said:

There is no breach of contract...they maybe did not read the TOS but that is on them.

[...]

People have to move on and just be careful next time.

(Quote modified by me to show what portions I wanted to address)

While I am no lawyer and cannot specify as to whether or not this would qualify as a breach of contract, your assumption that "they didn't read the TOS but that is on them" is inaccurate. Part of the reason that this is such a big deal is because Photobucket CHANGED their TOS to disallow third-party linking / display, quietly, without warning.

It is not ONLY a matter of the (exorbitant) charge that will allow you to do this, it is not ONLY a matter of the replaced image, it's that for a decade, Photobucket has not prohibited this behaviour. Here is a snapshot of the Photobucket TOS, last updated in 2013, but was current as of 2016, and third-party linking/display or "hotlinking" is not prohibited.

While there was an "as is" clause in the TOS, which is standard for any service, you can clearly see that this is a drastic change in policy. Coupling that with the immediate lockdown on peoples' content, and this is why people are upset.

[andrea1985]

Jul 13, 2017 8:29:57 GMT -8 Kami said:

Jul 13, 2017 8:19:37 GMT -8 andrea1985 said:

There is no breach of contract...they maybe did not read the TOS but that is on them.

[...]

People have to move on and just be careful next time.

(Quote modified by me to show what portions I wanted to address)

While I am no lawyer and cannot specify as to whether or not this would qualify as a breach of contract, your assumption that "they didn't read the TOS but that is on them" is inaccurate. Part of the reason that this is such a big deal is because Photobucket CHANGED their TOS to disallow third-party linking / display, quietly, without warning.

It is not ONLY a matter of the (exorbitant) charge that will allow you to do this, it is not ONLY a matter of the replaced image, it's that for a decade, Photobucket has not prohibited this behaviour. Here is a snapshot of the Photobucket TOS, last updated in 2013, but was current as of 2016, and third-party linking/display or "hotlinking" is not prohibited.

While there was an "as is" clause in the TOS, which is standard for any service, you can clearly see that this is a drastic change in policy. Coupling that with the immediate lockdown on peoples' content, and this is why people are upset.

I am a lawyer.

I know what they did.

And yes they lost a lot of goodwill.

But, and I am speculating, I do not believe they saw how many people were going to take up so much bandwidth.

People can be upset all they want. That does not mean they have a cause of action against photobucket.

They got this for free.

Now...if they do not not wish to pay anything...then they can part ways.

[Kami]

And I am not saying they have grounds to sue either (again I have no professional opinion about this since I am not a lawyer).

I was saying that the perception of "they didn't read the TOS that's why they don't understand there's no contract breach / it's their fault for not understanding this" is not an accurate assessment of the situation at hand. Sure, many people don't read the TOS but plenty of others DO and as you can see the TOS was in fact changed. This is not a policy people breached until literally this month when it became policy.

It is irrelevant to my point whether or not people intend to sue / take a class action; bare bones fact is that Photobucket had no policy in place preventing this type of usage until this month, so your assertion of it being "on [the user]" for not reading the TOS is not a comprehensive assessment of the situation.

[andrea1985]

Jul 13, 2017 9:35:02 GMT -8 Kami said:

And I am not saying they have grounds to sue either (again I have no professional opinion about this since I am not a lawyer).

I was saying that the perception of "they didn't read the TOS that's why they don't understand there's no contract breach" is not accurate.

photobucket changed their TOS.

So...they have the right to do so.

Ignorance of that does not mean there is a breach of contract.

Old doctrine...ignorance of the law is no excuse.


There really is no contract here in any case.

People gave nothing for something.

Contracts require something for something.

That argument can be made.


But heh...let people think they have a lawsuit. 

Not my time and money that will be wasted.

[Kami]

I don't mean to be rude, but you are missing my point entirely. I am not stating that a contract has been breeched. Please re-read my post, because you are arguing something I have never asserted.

If that is still not clear, then I will summarise: my point is that blaming the user for not reading the Photobucket TOS is not a comprehensive assessment of the situation because even HAD they read the TOS this was not a policy until this month.

I am not arguing that photobucket breached a contract or that they cannot change their TOS. I even explicitly noted they provided an "as is" clause which allows for changes to the service, which would automatically nullify any claims of breech of contract since it is stated that the service provided can change with no liability to the provider.

If you are going to dismiss this as simply "well read the TOS" then it is pertinent to understand that the TOS was changed so all the reading in the world prior to said change would have done nothing to prepare the user.

I may not be a lawyer but if you want to argue this with me I will be more than happy to comply via PM. I am not a lawyer but that doesn't mean I am ignorant or uneducated.

[m2marsh]

Jul 13, 2017 8:19:37 GMT -8 andrea1985 said:

Jul 13, 2017 7:29:40 GMT -8 Kami said:

Well, yeah. If you read my first post in this thread (which is the second post of the thread overall) I very much advocate users reading the TOS of a possible replacement host because unfortunately, a lot of them do have the same policy as Photobucket (though without the price tag). I am in no way advocating people pick a host on the fly, but rather that picking a host carefully will have to be done regardless of whether or not they find a "work around" for Photobucket's block.

I did read it, Kami. I just decided to quote you on this post. 

I am seeing people going crazy because of this photpbucket  thing.

Wanting to hire lawyers and/or contact the FBI.

They have no legal case.

At a stretch there is a tort called intentional infliction of emotional distress which has 4 elements.
But I do not think it will fly. Esp the 4th element.

There is no breach of contract...they maybe did not read the TOS but that is on them.

I have posted this where people are having nervous breakdowns, writing horrible things on the FB page of photobucket, leaving them nasty messages on their phone line, faxing them all sorts of things and even contacting the people here and dumping on them to the point of getting banned from here.

I stilt see that PB emblem on some forums.  The admin has not figured out how to get rid of it. 

Or empty Avatars because members are too lazy to upload an appropriate Avatar.

People have to move on and just be careful next time.

IMO, people's wrath toward Photobucket is well-deserved.  THEY CHANGED their TOS -- it isn't that we didn't read it!  And they did it in a sneaky way without notifying us of the impending doom.  So MANY of their long-standing customers (I'd been a member there since 2008) were left with a big mess to clean up.  And many people couldn't even retrieve their images to host them somewhere else.

I get why they felt they needed to generate more income -- I don't get the completely underhanded way they went about it.  Hell, I even "deleted" my account, yet today I see it is still there.  It warns me it will be deleted 7/8/17, but it isn't gone yet.  And I have no further options to delete.  RIDICULOUS! 

[Skidjit]

Really, this ticks me off. You don't even have the right to delete your own accounts. I wasn't going to delete mine. It's not much of an account but hearing this I think I ought to go try just to see if I can. I think I heard someone earlier once using the word "hostage" referring to photobucket saying that they are holding our accounts hostage. It sounds like it.

[m2marsh]

Jul 13, 2017 10:34:48 GMT -8 Skidjit said:

Really, this ticks me off. You don't even have the right to delete your own accounts. I wasn't going to delete mine. It's not much of an account but hearing this I think I ought to go try just to see if I can. I think I heard someone earlier once using the word "hostage" referring to photobucket saying that they are holding our accounts hostage. It sounds like it.

I just wrote to them using their Contact Us feature.  I gave them a piece of my mind, and told them I wanted my account deleted IMMEDIATELY.  How dare they not even allow us to delete our account?  I got a robot reply telling me how to delete it myself, but it said if I still couldn't , to reply back.  I did.  Where you are supposed to be able to click Delete Account, there isn't a button.  Just a message saying it will be deleted on 7/8/17. Um....

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

Jul 13, 2017 7:05:54 GMT -8 Kami said:

I just want to throw this out there: if you find a "work around" for Photobucket's block on hotlinking, I guarantee that this will not be permanent. Whether they catch it now or later when the initial lockdown is more stable, they will catch it so unless you are willing to pay that $400/yr you will, sooner or later, need to find a new host.

Absolutely. You are postponing the inevitable. Even for paying accounts that may be getting some leeway until 12/2018, they'll need to pay the $400/annually after that.

[♥ ℒʊ√ ♥]

Many, including myself, have spoken with Colorado's Attorney General. And as recommended by their office have filled out their online Consumer Fraud Complaint.

If enough complaints come in, as in most cases like this, they will open an investigation.

[Skidjit]

Jul 13, 2017 10:40:15 GMT -8 m2marsh said:

Jul 13, 2017 10:34:48 GMT -8 Skidjit said:

Really, this ticks me off. You don't even have the right to delete your own accounts. I wasn't going to delete mine. It's not much of an account but hearing this I think I ought to go try just to see if I can. I think I heard someone earlier once using the word "hostage" referring to photobucket saying that they are holding our accounts hostage. It sounds like it.

I just wrote to them using their Contact Us feature.  I gave them a piece of my mind, and told them I wanted my account deleted IMMEDIATELY.  How dare they not even allow us to delete our account?  I got a robot reply telling me how to delete it myself, but it said if I still couldn't , to reply back.  I did.  Where you are supposed to be able to click Delete Account, there isn't a button.  Just a message saying it will be deleted on 7/8/17. Um....

When I clicked 'delete account' there was a message saying it will be deleted in 48 hours. Then I saw the date that it would be deleted on July 15, 2017. 

So, nothing is stopping me from deleting my account. Probably because it's such a small account with only a few hundred images. Nothing to really sneeze about compared to you guys.