Staff and Rules

[Kitty Katt]

Do you allow your Staff to break, or even bend, some or all of your forum rules? Personally, I believe that Staff should be more susceptible to following the rules since they are, in effect, role models for the forum. After all, if regular members see Staff breaking the rules, they may see/use that as an opportunity to do the same. Even here on ProBoards Support, I have seen Staff breaking the rules - which has led me to post this and see what others think about it (about Staff breaking/bending rules - and for any forum).

[Joshua Farrell]

On a Webmaster Help/Advertising forum I am an admin of (Not hosted by PB btw), the staff are expected to follow the rules as much as the members, yet we are a little more harsh with the rules when it comes to staff. Basically the staff on that forum is expected to be prime examples of what members should be like.

But that doesn't mean that everything is ran like a dictatorship. We expect the staff to have just as much fun, as members, because they are members first, staff second. If the forum hosts a event that seems a little off for the forum subject, we add guidelines to the event to give expectations from both members and staff, so that no one claims that one group is promoted over the other.

Though honestly, ever since I was given the opportunity to be an Administrator over that forum, I have had plenty of people getting overworked about rules and what not, when they break them and of course them thinking that I am supposedly protecting others (like staff) from being given the same warning, (these messages generally start out private, and if the person is overworked and thinks someone else is guilty, they end up breaking more rules in the process of acting out against the item they are being told they broke). And honestly, these people that get "hurt" over a infraction (regardless of minor or major breakage), thinks that the people they were attempting to target (which caused them to break a rule) should be punished for the same exact rule. I don't understand this reasoning, as people should be punished for breaking a rule, and not the other way around. That line of thought, to me, feels like the whole thing of "punishing the accuser, not the sinner" line. Now I know there are people that accuse others of stuff, when they themselves are trying to hide what they are doing, but that is an entirely different thing.

Funny enough, most of my giving out warnings and bans on people, tend to be people you would expect to know that certain things are expected to be followed (because of how long they been on the forum, their age, or both). Yet they seem to be the most aggravated towards being given those warnings or bans.

It is weird how drastic the differences in acceptance or denial of what rules people broke, because of their age or length of time on being on various forums.

[Kami]

Jul 31, 2020 8:44:22 GMT -8 Kitty Katt said:

Do you allow your Staff to break, or even bend, some or all of your forum rules? Personally, I believe that Staff should be more susceptible to following the rules since they are, in effect, role models for the forum. After all, if regular members see Staff breaking the rules, they may see/use that as an opportunity to do the same. Even here on ProBoards Support, I have seen Staff breaking the rules - which has led me to post this and see what others think about it (about Staff breaking/bending rules - and for any forum).

It really depends on the rules.

But that said, I make sure to extend the same courtesy of those "slides" to the general public as well.

For example, if there's a "stay on topic / don't spam" rule and staff get a little caught up in the fun and start bantering with members, I'll let it go on for a little while. Usually if you let it run its course, it'll resolve itself with the staff member going "all right let's get back to following the rules."

It's not a good idea to run the small stuff with an iron fist, because that means even one mistake can cost you the trust of members. Plus, it makes it harder for people to have fun worrying that what they do might be misinterpreted as rule breaking. Some rules should be flexible, but that flexibility should apply to ALL members, not just staff (which, since you brought up PB staff, I believe they generally do a good job with; I know I've bantered on unrelated topics in support threads, and it's all let go provided that I don't get too carried away. I believe I joke-proposed to Craig with a photo of A&W root beer and M&Ms at one point )

But that said there are certain things that should be a zero-tolerance / held to a higher standard for staff. If a member is circumventing rules or consequences and is aided and abetted by a staff member (a real situation I have had happen), then that staff member will not only receive a warning as a member, but be demoted and possibly suspended. Similarly, if a staff member sets up to reward people for breaking the rules (another situation I have actually had happen) that should also be dealt with swiftly and with more harshness than if a regular member encouraged such a thing.

TLDR: It depends on the context. If it's something that really isn't a big deal and doesn't undermine your values as a group, then just let it go but let it go for EVERYONE not just staff. If it goes contrary to your values or encourages members to disregard the rules to an extreme point, then yes, staff should be held to the same and/or higher standard as anyone else.

[bigballofyarn]

I hold everyone to the same rules. However, I also don't have an automatic ban hammer. Context is very important. I look at what rule was broken. I ask myself if it was broken accidentally or maliciously. Even if I know the member in person, they know they are to respect the rules of the forum while they are posting on the forum. I'm not like one of those parents who says, "You're older. You should know better." Everyone is given the same benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong.

[ZandraJoi]

Others have said the same thing. Rules are rules & should be followed. I had asked similar questions on how to do rules myself. & I do agree with nobody should be exempt. But I do give people a chance to remedy their mistake. Sometimes people just don't realize they goofed.
Good discussion by the way!

[Retread]

Jul 31, 2020 8:44:22 GMT -8 Kitty Katt said:

Do you allow your Staff to break, or even bend, some or all of your forum rules?

It depends on the situation. And everything is a situation. On occasion, it's more expedient to bend a rule than to go by the book. But those occasions are few and far between.

Jul 31, 2020 8:44:22 GMT -8 Kitty Katt said:

Personally, I believe that Staff should be more susceptible to following the rules since they are, in effect, role models for the forum.

I'm not sure susceptible is the best word for this. But I understand what you mean. For the most part, Staff members need to hold themselves to a higher standard.

[Sylvie Brett]

On one of the boards I'm currently a member of I'm only a normal member, but I have been staff on a couple previous boards and have always made sure to follow the rules. I'm currently in the middle of creating my own board, and if I'm able to get people to help me run it then I'd definitely expect them, as well as myself to follow rules. But I wouldn't be harsh about things either and wouldn't make it an un fun atmosphere. At least I hope I don't.

[Trab]

I do know of a few boards where mods are allowed to Abuse The Powers, I might let it bend but if it's something that breaks the rules in a bad way then I may give them an warning.

[Kitty Katt]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses.

I am in total agreement that, if a rule is bent for one, it should be bent to that same degree for everyone. In my humble opinion, I believe that favoritism can actually harm a forum.

Context is certainly a valid qualifier as well. Was it more of an "oops" or was it intended? This can also be looked at with that member's past "history", as that can be an indicator. If they have done well over time, the it would probably be more of an "oops". However, if they have a history of rule breaking, particularly if it's the same rule being broken, then I would be more inclined to think it was intended.

I have absolutely no issues if Staff involve with playful bantering with the members - it shows everyone that they are human too and also like to have fun. My issue would be if Staff got involved in playful bantering and did not permit the members to do so as well. That situation would have me PM'ing that Staff member.

I also do not have an automatic ban hammer (unless it is quite obvious that a member registered to just spam junk). Like most (I would presume), I prefer to keep members rather than banning anyone for any little thing. That could, and most likely would, be very detrimental to the forum's reputation.

Personally, I only have about six rules. I realize that the number of rules a forum has depends on, at least in part, on what type of a forum it is. Mine is simply a general chat forum, so I felt not many rules were needed. IF something came up that would warrant a new rule, then I would append it to the list. A friend of mine has a forum that has about two dozen rules ... but that particular forum is more on a business side, so I can see the need for them.

I am also in agreement that a forum should not be ran like a dictatorship. That, too, could be detrimental to a forum. Staff are members first, Staff second ... but because they are Staff, they tend to be more noticeable with what they post. Again, context would need to come into play here to see if what the Staff are posting is going along with the thread ... even if their is a brief period of time in the thread for off-topic "playtime".

Again, I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to post replies with your thoughts on the matter. It has been quite informative.

[Former Member]

I have hardly any rules, just: be civilized to each other, no bad language, no flashing or overly animated images, and keeping images to a reasonable size. That's it. So if I had staff, I would definitely expect them to follow those few rules as well.

[tvfans]

Imo the rules are there for a reason and everyone needs to follow them.
I don't just ban cause someone made a mistake. Everyone can make a mistake.
My members are all nice and I have only had to ban spammers, not real members.

I only have 3 rules and basically they all say, use your common sense.
If not, 3 strikes and you're out. But as I said, I only have nice members and have never had to ban.

[Sam]

My rules are very relaxed and simple, but I definitely expect mods to set a good example for everyone.

[Mandoli]

Jul 31, 2020 8:44:22 GMT -8 Kitty Katt said:

Do you allow your Staff to break, or even bend, some or all of your forum rules?

I don't like it when people abuse the rules. I can't manage to read every thread, but when someone PMs me and tells me "hey, one of your mini-staff members decided to post one-sided political stuff about racism", I had to step in. My goal is to make sure everyone feels welcomed by members and staff members alike. Now I have to talk to this moderator and tell him that if he tries it again, I'm going to revoke his moderator privileges. It can't run like they can do what they want.