HTML Headings

[3rd]

my site:   cabbage.boards.net/

I would like a plugin that could change the H1 tag to represent the title of the active thread.

Here is the reason. My forum title is Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.

If I am writing threads about cabbages then I don't have a problem.

If I am writing a thread about scientific equipment my H1 tag is still about cabbages.

This is a problem with using the H1 in the banner.

Search engines want to see a H1 tag, great I have one about cabbages.

Search engines then want to see H2 H3 etc with keywords from within the original H1 Tag.


What is happening with the current system is like going to the drug store and asking if you can have a look at their latest tractors for sale.

So the search engines have seen my H1  Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.


The search engine now expects to find some text that relates to that H1.

The problem is that if your post has nothing to do with your H1 it will be relegated to the bottom of the list.

No one will ever read that interesting post that you spent ten hours of research and a few more trying to make it presentable.

Obviously if you are only partaking in "the last post" and words ending in ing, you don't have a problem.

If a way could be found to deal with this through CSS it would be even better.

In simple terms what is happening is, we are going to the wrong shop to find what we want so we will never find it 
 

[Kami]

Jan 20, 2021 11:06:48 GMT -8 3rd said:

my site:   cabbage.boards.net/

I would like a plugin that could change the H1 tag to represent the title of the active thread.

Here is the reason. My forum title is Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.

If I am writing threads about cabbages then I don't have a problem.

If I am writing a thread about scientific equipment my H1 tag is still about cabbages.

This is a problem with using the H1 in the banner.

Search engines want to see a H1 tag, great I have one about cabbages.

Search engines then want to see H2 H3 etc with keywords from within the original H1 Tag.


What is happening with the current system is like going to the drug store and asking if you can have a look at their latest tractors for sale.

So the search engines have seen my H1  Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.


The search engine now expects to find some text that relates to that H1.

The problem is that if your post has nothing to do with your H1 it will be relegated to the bottom of the list.

No one will ever read that interesting post that you spent ten hours of research and a few more trying to make it presentable.

Obviously if you are only partaking in "the last post" and words ending in ing, you don't have a problem.

If a way could be found to deal with this through CSS it would be even better.

In simple terms what is happening is, we are going to the wrong shop to find what we want so we will never find it
 

IDK if you're aware, but you can use the H1 BB Code tag in your post and it will convert to HTML in the browser for the same purpose (:

But that said, thread titles are already H1 tags.

[3rd]

Jan 20, 2021 11:19:00 GMT -8 Kami said:

Jan 20, 2021 11:06:48 GMT -8 3rd said:

my site:   cabbage.boards.net/

I would like a plugin that could change the H1 tag to represent the title of the active thread.

Here is the reason. My forum title is Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.

If I am writing threads about cabbages then I don't have a problem.

If I am writing a thread about scientific equipment my H1 tag is still about cabbages.

This is a problem with using the H1 in the banner.

Search engines want to see a H1 tag, great I have one about cabbages.

Search engines then want to see H2 H3 etc with keywords from within the original H1 Tag.


What is happening with the current system is like going to the drug store and asking if you can have a look at their latest tractors for sale.

So the search engines have seen my H1  Cabbage fermentation and souring forum.


The search engine now expects to find some text that relates to that H1.

The problem is that if your post has nothing to do with your H1 it will be relegated to the bottom of the list.

No one will ever read that interesting post that you spent ten hours of research and a few more trying to make it presentable.

Obviously if you are only partaking in "the last post" and words ending in ing, you don't have a problem.

If a way could be found to deal with this through CSS it would be even better.

In simple terms what is happening is, we are going to the wrong shop to find what we want so we will never find it
 

IDK if you're aware, but you can use the H1 BB Code tag in your post and it will convert to HTML in the browser for the same purpose (:

But that said, thread titles are already H1 tags.

Thanks for the quick reply Kami.

I am aware of the BB code but I can not use that in the thread title.

The BB code only injects the font size number, not "H" tag and only works in the actual post.

The reason your test is showing H1 tags is because you have the thread page set to show H1 tags.

They show up as H1 in the "inspect element", but they show up as H2 on six different SEO checkers.

Even by setting the Banner text to H1, all other thread titles show up as H2.

I agree with what you are saying that the H1 is visible in the "inspect element page"

The problem is that every single heading is actually H2 unless you set the Banner heading to H1.

At this point we are back to my original point, all my threads not relating to  "Cabbage fermentation and souring forum" are using a H2 tag under the banner of an unrelated subject.

  

[Kami]

Jan 21, 2021 1:57:23 GMT -8 3rd said:

Jan 20, 2021 11:19:00 GMT -8 Kami said:

IDK if you're aware, but you can use the H1 BB Code tag in your post and it will convert to HTML in the browser for the same purpose (:

But that said, thread titles are already H1 tags.

Thanks for the quick reply Kami.

I am aware of the BB code but I can not use that in the thread title.

The BB code only injects the font size number, not "H" tag and only works in the actual post.

The reason your test is showing H1 tags is because you have the thread page set to show H1 tags.

They show up as H1 in the "inspect element", but they show up as H2 on six different SEO checkers.

Even by setting the Banner text to H1, all other thread titles show up as H2.

I agree with what you are saying that the H1 is visible in the "inspect element page"

The problem is that every single heading is actually H2 unless you set the Banner heading to H1.

At this point we are back to my original point, all my threads not relating to  "Cabbage fermentation and souring forum" are using a H2 tag under the banner of an unrelated subject.

  

The solution to this shouldn't be a plugin, though. Plugins don't alter the base HTML and load only *after* a page is loaded. Many crawl bots don't even use javascript (which plugins are written in). I would recommend asking this in the Templates wishlist as opposed to the plugin one. I would love to continue this conversation with you via PM, because in my experience the SEO results you're describing shouldn't be happening — h1 tags occurring multiple times per page should be fine if there is clear hierarchy based on everything I can find on the subject + my ~15 years experience as a web developer. But that topic derails this thread so if you would be so kind as to PM me that would be lovely!

[3rd]

Jan 21, 2021 7:32:06 GMT -8 Kami said:

Jan 21, 2021 1:57:23 GMT -8 3rd said:

Thanks for the quick reply Kami.

I am aware of the BB code but I can not use that in the thread title.

The BB code only injects the font size number, not "H" tag and only works in the actual post.

The reason your test is showing H1 tags is because you have the thread page set to show H1 tags.

They show up as H1 in the "inspect element", but they show up as H2 on six different SEO checkers.

Even by setting the Banner text to H1, all other thread titles show up as H2.

I agree with what you are saying that the H1 is visible in the "inspect element page"

The problem is that every single heading is actually H2 unless you set the Banner heading to H1.

At this point we are back to my original point, all my threads not relating to  "Cabbage fermentation and souring forum" are using a H2 tag under the banner of an unrelated subject.

  

The solution to this shouldn't be a plugin, though. Plugins don't alter the base HTML and load only *after* a page is loaded. Many crawl bots don't even use javascript (which plugins are written in). I would recommend asking this in the Templates wishlist as opposed to the plugin one. I would love to continue this conversation with you via PM, because in my experience the SEO results you're describing shouldn't be happening — h1 tags occurring multiple times per page should be fine if there is clear hierarchy based on everything I can find on the subject + my ~15 years experience as a web developer. But that topic derails this thread so if you would be so kind as to PM me that would be lovely!

Many thanks for the PM invitation Kami.
I think by discussing this over PM's defeats the whole Idea of a forum, a bit like two people taking the ball from the pitch and leaving the supporters with no more progress.

I know this subject is a bag of worms that is perhaps best kept out of the spotlight.
As far as multiple H1's is concerned , that is an absolute NO for me.

Attachments:

[Chris]

Jan 22, 2021 2:52:26 GMT -8 3rd said:

Many thanks for the PM invitation Kami.
I think by discussing this over PM's defeats the whole Idea of a forum, a bit like two people taking the ball from the pitch and leaving the supporters with no more progress.

I know this subject is a bag of worms that is perhaps best kept out of the spotlight.
As far as multiple H1's is concerned , that is an absolute NO for me.

I believe the intent of the PM invitation (and template wishlist link) was to redirect you to a more appropriate venue for discussing the issue further and avoid derailing the intended discussion for which this topic was created (basically asking people who build plugins what they would like to see added to their toolbox). It was not some conspiracy to quash as being implied.

Jan 21, 2021 7:32:06 GMT -8 Kami said:

But that topic derails this thread so if you would be so kind as to PM me that would be lovely!

Dec 29, 2020 18:27:35 GMT -8 Matej said:

Posts not related to the relevant topic will be removed.

Please accept the invitation to continue the discussion elsewhere so this thread can remain on topic

[3rd]

My apologies Chris.
I misunderstood the text of the thread title and the meaning of "But that topic derails this thread"
Please remove the post at your leisure.



Nice signature by the way.

[Kami]

It looks like someone split this into a separate thread, so I'm fine with continuing the conversation here as opposed to a PM.

Is Bing the only search engine that flags multiple H1s as a negative for you? Or is this also occurring on other search engines?

[Matej]

I moved the posts into a new thread to allow discussion to continue for 3rd while I did some research into this.

Multiple h1's on a page is a hotly contested debate:
www.greenlanemarketing.com/resources/articles/seo-101-seo-and-multiple-h1-tags/
searchengineland.com/multiple-h1s-wont-get-in-the-way-of-your-seo-google-says-322909
moz.com/blog/h1-seo-experiment

In spite of that, on v5, a default theme actually starts with the forum banner being an h2, while board and thread titles are h1.
Looks like on your default theme, the banner was changed into an h1 - which should be just fine.

However if you would prefer to change that, you do not need a plugin for that. Go to your theme's Forum Wrapper template and find the following:

<h1 id="banner">
$[forum.title]
</h1>


Change both "h1" into "h2" and your template will be as desired - returned to the original default definition.

[3rd]

Jan 22, 2021 11:50:06 GMT -8 Kami said:

It looks like someone split this into a separate thread, so I'm fine with continuing the conversation here as opposed to a PM.

Is Bing the only search engine that flags multiple H1s as a negative for you? Or is this also occurring on other search engines?

Hello again Kami.

Perhaps if I explain that I am familiar  with all the H1 and H2 tags within every section and subsection  of the forum wrapper.

I understand what they do and the flags they can cause on the search engines.

I mention this only in an attempt to not waste your valuable time.

I know that if I set the banner to H1 and the active thread to H1 I will cause a multiple H1 problem.

I also Know that if I set the Active thread to H1 then I will have to lose the H1 tag for the Home Page for the same multiple H1 problem.

I am seeking a way to make Active threads H1 and keep the H1 for the home page without  causing a multiple H1 flag.

That is why I originally requested a plugin or CSS method to achieve this.

I bow to your superior coding knowledge .

I am just an old farmer who found out what a H1 tag was when I started my first forum on Proboards six months ago.

If you feel that a CSS code or script could address this request,  then I would look forward to any suggestions.

Thanks for your patience and tolerating my inability to express my thoughts in a clear and concise manner.

  

[3rd]

Jan 22, 2021 12:42:41 GMT -8 Matej said:

I moved the posts into a new thread to allow discussion to continue for 3rd while I did some research into this.

Multiple h1's on a page is a hotly contested debate:
www.greenlanemarketing.com/resources/articles/seo-101-seo-and-multiple-h1-tags/
searchengineland.com/multiple-h1s-wont-get-in-the-way-of-your-seo-google-says-322909
moz.com/blog/h1-seo-experiment

In spite of that, on v5, a default theme actually starts with the forum banner being an h2, while board and thread titles are h1.
Looks like on your default theme, the banner was changed into an h1 - which should be just fine.

However if you would prefer to change that, you do not need a plugin for that. Go to your theme's Forum Wrapper template and find the following:

<h1 id="banner">
$[forum.title]
</h1>


Change both "h1" into "h2" and your template will be as desired - returned to the original default definition.

Thank you Matej for sorting things out.

I was just mentioning to Kami, that I know and understand what the H1 and H2 tags in all sections and subsections of the forum wrapper are used for and the flags that can be created by playing with them.


I have read many debates on the issue of multiple H1 tags the pros and the cons.

I should imagine that having Multiple H1 tags is fine as long as they can be injected into your text in a place that makes logical sense.

Imagine this scenario H1 title book 1

100 lines of text.

H1 title book 2

100 lines of text

That would be fine , no problem.


Now this scenario H1 Book 1
                          H1 Book2
200 lines of text that will never be read.


After all the time I spent looking for an answer, I came up with this as looking like the most plausible.

 www.mybloggertricks.com/2015/06/missing-H1-Tag-in-Blogspot-blogs.html

He talks a good fight but I am not a coder and have no idea what any of it means.

There are about 75 comments under his blog and only a couple of them said they got it to work.

Thanks again for your help

[Kami]

What I am curious about isnt coding related; you posted a screenshot in an earlier post from Bing, that flagged multiple H1s as a negative issue — my question is, is bing the only search engine that flags this issue? Or do other engines, like Google or Yahoo, do the same thing?

It would be helpful to know if this is a Bing-specific issue or not, because if it's more wise spread than just Bing, ProBoards might need to adjust their SEO readiness strategy.

As far as your blog post reference goes, I hesitate to recommend following what it says because it was posted in 2015, meaning it's at least six years (give or take a few months) out of date. Internet practices change a lot in six months, not to mention six years. While Schema (the rich microdata this blog post suggests to add to your HTML) has a lot of nice ideas and theoretical application, multiple articles I've read on the subject state that there is no evidence this actually helps your search engine rankings; the only thing this is designed to do is to provide additional context when creating your search engine entry for any given page. It doesnt remove the issue of multiple H1s, and there is no indication that multiple H1s on a page wouldn't be negatively flagged by a search engine that flags for this issue using this method. The only thing the blog post you referenced is doing is adding context as to what each H1 is referencing, which makes for the little snippet on a search engine results list more descriptive.

Basically, to sum up: the solution you're looking for — i.e. having multiple H1 tags without being negatively marked — is having your cake and eating it too. There isn't any code that can trick a search engine into viewing an H1 as anything but an H1, no matter how its contextualised.

[3rd]

Jan 23, 2021 5:24:14 GMT -8 Kami said:

What I am curious about isnt coding related; you posted a screenshot in an earlier post from Bing, that flagged multiple H1s as a negative issue — my question is, is bing the only search engine that flags this issue? Or do other engines, like Google or Yahoo, do the same thing?

It would be helpful to know if this is a Bing-specific issue or not, because if it's more wise spread than just Bing, ProBoards might need to adjust their SEO readiness strategy.

As far as your blog post reference goes, I hesitate to recommend following what it says because it was posted in 2015, meaning it's at least six years (give or take a few months) out of date. Internet practices change a lot in six months, not to mention six years. While Schema (the rich microdata this blog post suggests to add to your HTML) has a lot of nice ideas and theoretical application, multiple articles I've read on the subject state that there is no evidence this actually helps your search engine rankings; the only thing this is designed to do is to provide additional context when creating your search engine entry for any given page. It doesnt remove the issue of multiple H1s, and there is no indication that multiple H1s on a page wouldn't be negatively flagged by a search engine that flags for this issue using this method. The only thing the blog post you referenced is doing is adding context as to what each H1 is referencing, which makes for the little snippet on a search engine results list more descriptive.

Basically, to sum up: the solution you're looking for — i.e. having multiple H1 tags without being negatively marked — is having your cake and eating it too. There isn't any code that can trick a search engine into viewing an H1 as anything but an H1, no matter how its contextualised.

Yes Kami only Bing and it only flags H1 as being missing in the default setup.

I do quite like to have my cake and eat it .

For now I have decided to stick with using H1 in the banner, with all else as H2 while entering a few relative keywords to my threads and signature.
I know I will be flagged For repeat H1 tags but I can live with that.

Thanks again Kami 

[Kami]

Jan 23, 2021 5:43:27 GMT -8 3rd said:

Jan 23, 2021 5:24:14 GMT -8 Kami said:

What I am curious about isnt coding related; you posted a screenshot in an earlier post from Bing, that flagged multiple H1s as a negative issue — my question is, is bing the only search engine that flags this issue? Or do other engines, like Google or Yahoo, do the same thing?

It would be helpful to know if this is a Bing-specific issue or not, because if it's more wise spread than just Bing, ProBoards might need to adjust their SEO readiness strategy.

As far as your blog post reference goes, I hesitate to recommend following what it says because it was posted in 2015, meaning it's at least six years (give or take a few months) out of date. Internet practices change a lot in six months, not to mention six years. While Schema (the rich microdata this blog post suggests to add to your HTML) has a lot of nice ideas and theoretical application, multiple articles I've read on the subject state that there is no evidence this actually helps your search engine rankings; the only thing this is designed to do is to provide additional context when creating your search engine entry for any given page. It doesnt remove the issue of multiple H1s, and there is no indication that multiple H1s on a page wouldn't be negatively flagged by a search engine that flags for this issue using this method. The only thing the blog post you referenced is doing is adding context as to what each H1 is referencing, which makes for the little snippet on a search engine results list more descriptive.

Basically, to sum up: the solution you're looking for — i.e. having multiple H1 tags without being negatively marked — is having your cake and eating it too. There isn't any code that can trick a search engine into viewing an H1 as anything but an H1, no matter how its contextualised.

Yes Kami only Bing and it only flags H1 as being missing in the default setup.

I do quite like to have my cake and eat it .

For now I have decided to stick with using H1 in the banner, with all else as H2 while entering a few relative keywords to my threads and signature.
I know I will be flagged For repeat H1 tags but I can live with that.

Thanks again Kami 

As far as my research has been able to come up with, Bing is probably the only major engine to negatively flag for this. Google for instance has outright said multiple H1s are not negatively impacting your SEO for their engine. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it — most engines use a smarter contextualised method of aggregating search results based on organic context, even if the "main" forum is not of the same topic.

You're welcome! Sorry I was not able to provide a viable solution. Unfortunately, until search engines and developers can agree on H1 standards in relation to SEO, there will not be a way to 100% optimise across the board. I recommend going with the majority (in this case, multiple H1s being accepted by most search engines) until such a time as a unified standard appears.

[3rd]

Thanks for all the hard work Kami.
Google do seem to accept most things even the missing alt text.

Bing on the other hand flags the missing alt text.
The strangest thing is that I have attached alt text to all my images because of Bing's flag.
Google have found my Images but Bing Have not.
Thanks again Kami