To all coders

[Leviathan]

What's your general advice or tips about the industry, how to learn code and what to learn?

Myself Ive literally just started to learn C++ by downloading Microsoft Visual Studio and creating a hello world "program" lol. Atm using a youtube C tutorial series - the guy works in the industry in mobile gaming.

At one point I was seriously considering Python or JavaScript. Or just Java. More so probably one of the 2 Js for an entry level job.

Ive heard Python is easy to learn (and a good foundation for learning other languages) but from what I can tell it is more for intermediate jobs where it is a requirement with other programming languages. Or if you want to get into data science, not sure about entry level or not though

I ultimately chose it because I want to get into gaming. Yolo and mess it, sorry had to use it haha. However, Ive heard the gaming industry is unpredictable and not secure when it comes to jobs. Also I would imagine it is highly competitive. Nevertheless the language would still be useful for other careers ie operating systems or whatever. It may be an impossible feat but Ill try anyway with both learning C and to get into the gaming industry.

Also learning it because hey if I can master this (apparently one of the harder languages to learn) than any other languages will be pretty easy in comparison.

Thanks and looking forward to your sage counsel 

[coolcoolcool]

I personally know 2 people who took a non-traditional route (ie computer science or software engineering degree) to getting into the industry.

Both of these people spent a considerable amount of time learning the basics of web development (HTML/CSS, Javascript, git, linux commands, docker, some simple SQL, and really basic React), but to secure a job they made use of academies at local software consultancies.

These academies are basically a crash course in how to be an engineer and rely on previous knowledge to an extent (I personally would want to enter one to fill gaps, not to teach me everything). What is nice about the ones near where I live is they also pay a salary because there is so much demand for engineers, and then you leave them with a permanent position along with support and mentorship.

My advice is to try to learn some marketable skills by filling the requirements of an archetype. Some examples are:
- Web Developer with the skills I listed above and maybe typescript
- Backend JVM engineer (Java/Kotlin, Postgresql, Docker, Git, Linux, basics of a framework like Spring)
- Data analyst (I know less about this, but Python is the go to here)
- DevOps (Study a cloud provider like AWS and maybe get a certification, Terraform, Ansible or Chef, Linux, Git, basic python/go, etc.)

Note that I list lots of terms and technologies, but I am not suggesting you need to know them all, nor am I suggesting you learn them to mastery. After all, junior engineers are almost always require a lot of support and have huge gaps in their knowledge. The main reason I list them is it gives you an idea of where you might go and it might guide you when you are looking for courses and video content.

But before you do any of the above, you just need to start learning a language and start coding. I would personally not recommend C or C++ as a starting language (I wouldn't even want to write these today as I like the idea of Rust), mainly because it is hard enough just to learn how to code. A garbage collector will make your life a lot easier.

Also, make sure you get yourself an IDE as they are a godsend (auto complete features, stylistic hints, starter projects, etc.). For JVM dev I recommend IntelliJ, but Visual Studio Code is a great option for most things.

Finally, I have been coding on and off since I was 13 and seriously as a career since I was 25 (I'm 32 now) and I personally have loads more to learn. So don't get discouraged when you progress slowly. Just make sure you stay consistent and I have no doubt you'll get there.

Good luck!

EDIT: I don't know much about the game industry, so it is difficult to advise you there. I imagine C# is used quite heavily there though. If that's where you really want to go, I recommend learning that and building a portfolio making use of a popular engine. Another option would be to get another software engineering job and then move over to the game industry once you feel a bit more comfortable with your skills. 

[Leviathan]

Jan 16, 2023 13:25:17 GMT -8 coolcoolcool said:

I personally know 2 people who took a non-traditional route (ie computer science or software engineering degree) to getting into the industry.

Both of these people spent a considerable amount of time learning the basics of web development (HTML/CSS, Javascript, git, linux commands, docker, some simple SQL, and really basic React), but to secure a job they made use of academies at local software consultancies.

These academies are basically a crash course in how to be an engineer and rely on previous knowledge to an extent (I personally would want to enter one to fill gaps, not to teach me everything). What is nice about the ones near where I live is they also pay a salary because there is so much demand for engineers, and then you leave them with a permanent position along with support and mentorship.

My advice is to try to learn some marketable skills by filling the requirements of an archetype. Some examples are:
- Web Developer with the skills I listed above and maybe typescript
- Backend JVM engineer (Java/Kotlin, Postgresql, Docker, Git, Linux, basics of a framework like Spring)
- Data analyst (I know less about this, but Python is the go to here)
- DevOps (Study a cloud provider like AWS and maybe get a certification, Terraform, or Chef, Linux, Git, basic python/go, etc.)

Note that I list lots of terms and technologies, but I am not suggesting you need to know them all, nor am I suggesting you learn them to mastery. After all, junior engineers are almost always require a lot of support and have huge gaps in their knowledge. The main reason I list them is it gives you an idea of where you might go and it might guide you when you are looking for courses and video content.

But before you do any of the above, you just need to start learning a language and start coding. I would personally not recommend C or C++ as a starting language (I wouldn't even want to write these today as I like the idea of Rust), mainly because it is hard enough just to learn how to code. A garbage collector will make your life a lot easier.

Also, make sure you get yourself an IDE as they are a godsend (auto complete features, stylistic hints, starter projects, etc.). For JVM dev I recommend IntelliJ, but Visual Studio Code is a great option for most things.

Finally, I have been coding on and off since I was 13 and seriously as a career since I was 25 (I'm 32 now) and I personally have loads more to learn. So don't get discouraged when you progress slowly. Just make sure you stay consistent and I have no doubt you'll get there.

Good luck!

EDIT: I don't know much about the game industry, so it is difficult to advise you there. I imagine C# is used quite heavily there though. If that's where you really want to go, I recommend learning that and building a portfolio making use of a popular engine. Another option would be to get another software engineering job and then move over to the game industry once you feel a bit more comfortable with your skills. 

Thanks for all this and taking the time to type it up-something to think about. You really are cool, cool, cool. Is that from Community?

Yeah a friend was telling me about cloud. He seemed to think there wanst much coding involved?

Is touch typing necessary?

[coolcoolcool]

I predate community 🙂.

Yeah, there is less coding involved. You do sometimes need to write code to automate things (lambda in AWS, groovy in Jenkins pipelines, scripts to transfer files, etc), but a lot of being a cloud engineer is writing yaml to configure infrastructure and knowing best practices in a broad area. Ie) knowing what services solve what problems, how to cost save, security best practices, CI/CD, etc.

I only have a surface level understanding of the role though. I can get around on AWS, write a little terraform and kubernetes, use basic services, and reason about roles/permissions, but I’m no DevOps engineer.

[User 180565 is taking donation]

I won't pretend like I know coding but I have a basic understanding of reading the structure and making some variables out. What I did I would look at previous code make little tweaks here and there to attempt to see if any of my meadling did anything, of course never claim prewritten as your own but if it's free to the public I see no harm in making your own adjustments as long as credit is given it's respect.

[Bennett 🚀]

As someone who works currently as a full-time software engineer (and been doing so for 7 years now, the time flies) and has a bachelors degree in computer science, I have a couple cents to throw in here.

I would say that what language to learn is not the most important question to ask, but what is something you have motivation to complete and what avenues do you need to take to get there? Someone who wants to make a website needs far different skills than someone who wants to work with neural networks and machine learning. Learning programming for the sake of programming will never stick -- you have to have some other driving force to ensure you stick with it. I remember there was a specific point in my life where programming just clicked, and that was because I had something in mind I wanted to do, and that kept me engaged with learning how to get from point A to point B.

Like, let's say you want to make a computer game: you would likely want to research what options you have for what languages are usually used for game programming, and any other tools that can help make your life easier. In this case, game programming has a whole universe around it, particularly with game engines like Unity or Unreal or Godot, that each offer their own interfaces to work and create games by doing some of the heavy lifting that every game needs. Things like physics, lighting, etc. Unity uses C# as its primary programming language, Unreal engine uses C++, and Godot can use C#, C++, or their proprietary GDScript.
Since you have a game idea in mind that you want to create, you would start by twiddling around and looking up things that you don't know how to do, and finding tutorials or other knowledge sources to help you figure it out. There are SO many resources out there, you just have to be good at searching.

The key to programming is to not give up, and to keep trying different things. Something not working and you've sunk too much time on it? Try to turn it on its head and think of a different way to do it that is different than the original implementation.
Still not working? Work on something else, and come back with fresh eyes. There have been many occasions where I could be stuck on a problem I've been working on for a few days, and a long weekend will just open my eyes on how to fix something. Going on walks or letting your mind wander while doing other things can also help with problem solving skills, because sometimes ideas just come to you when you're not actively thinking about the problem at hand.

In summary, my key takeaways would be:
1. Have a goal you want to achieve, and use programming to get you there instead of the other way around.
2. Don't get discouraged, keep on keeping on. Try different things, work on something else, or just come back after a couple days and try again if you are getting frustrated with a programming issue. Burn out is a real thing too; take a break if you feel like your motivation is waning. Something will come along and re-stoke that motivation to get you back into a healthy relationship with programming.
3. Learning one programming language and its concepts will open up working in other languages with those same concepts -- don't let picking a language be a decision that has you frozen in indecisiveness. Look around at the programming languages that can accomplish your goal, look at their syntaxes and see which one seems easier for you to understand and go with that one.

Some lovely online resources for any kinds of programming to check out too:
Udemy
Codecademy
Khan Academy