ToS queries - No privacy in PMs, and no lying(?)

[Sofox]

Hey PB staff,

I read your new ToS with great interest last night, and being a law student was hoping that I might pose a number of questions to you about (what I perceive to be) a couple of interesting clauses.


The first of which is the way that Private Messages are now Personal Messages. The operative word being 'private'.
In S.16 "Public Forums" are defined as follows '...is any area, site or feature offered as part of the Website (including [...] or personal messaging features)' - so PMs are now defined as 'public'. Correct?

S.16 then goes on to say 'You acknowledge that Public Forums, and features contained therein, are for public and not private communications.', and then the section continues with 'You have no expectation of privacy with regard to any such submission...'

Now I understand that there's no website mechanic that allows you to read another member's PMs, but could you clarify that PB staff can, if they so choose, read Personal Messages?
Does this not also mean that if PB staff so chose to do so, they could allow anyone else to view the personal messages of another?
Would I be right in deducing that anything we say in private messages we should be prepared for the possibility that these messages be made truly 'public' - and that we have no privacy in these user-to-user communications?



The second question I had, (and forgive me for the flippancy which I say this), but have ProBoards just outlawed lying?
S.19 (b) provide false, misleading or inaccurate information to ProBoards or any other member;
And if so, are moderators and staff of a forum expected to enforce this sub-section?



I eagerly anticipate your response! ^_^

[tercielsilvi]

I think this is as good a place as any to ask my one question about the new ToS:

My interpretation of section 15 (User Content) seems to suggest that all posts become property of Proboards to do what they wish, and that we have to waive all rights to out posts? It also seems to suggest that Proboards may give information about me in connection with my posts when they want?

Have I understood this correctly?

[bigballofyarn]

I'm fairly certain that the admins of all of Proboards have always been able to access any section of any forum. However, I could be wrong. So, please wait for one of them to give you an official answer.

Under "provide false, misleading or inaccurate information to ProBoards or any other member" I ASSUME it would pertain to something like this: I'm on your forum....and I send you a PM that another member is making fun of me and making me cry when they actually aren't. You in return, decide to ban them (when they have done nothing wrong.) I also assume it would pertain to this fictitious scenario: I join your forum and pretend to be another person. I provide a false name, false info about my life, and potentially assume the identity of someone else.

HOWEVER.. I don't think they outlawed "lying" cause then all rpg forums would break the TOS since everyone is posting in their characters, and fictitious situations.

[Sofox]

Yes, in the first scenario you use to illustrate this section of the ToS, you describe a scenario where someone lying. This is my point exactly.

[bigballofyarn]

But I THINK it's only lying to the extent where it could potentially cause damage or harm to another person.... NOT if I send you a PM like "Hey I just found $200" when I really didn't...cause you'll just be like "wow cool, what are you gonna buy?" and no one's welfare is at stake.

[Sofox]

Well this is it, this is what you THINK, and I THINK that (intentionally) providing misinformation is near enough synonymous with 'lying'. If the section meant that it was against to provide misinformation which could result in damage or harm to another, then it really should say so. :/

The section isn't clear, and while I understand your opinion on this bigballofyarn, we need clarification from an admin.

[🎶Sossity🎶]

Hi

To everyone:

Please check back for admin's response to any TOS queries.
So,please halt any further discussions 'til then.

Thanks.

[K-KASS]

I have a related question, so I'm going to add it here.

My daughter has MPD (multiple personality disorder) and pretty much has a forum where she talks to herself under like 25 different user accounts. but she's not assuming the identity of any real person. she's just posting to herself as if they were all different people...and having conversations.

so under the tos where it says "impersonate, or otherwise misrepresent affiliation, connection or association with, any person or entity;" does that mean she is breaking the tos, since she has multiple accounts... some male...some female...with different names etc?

[VS Admin]

May 2, 2010 4:05:07 GMT -8 Sofox said:

Hey PB staff,

I read your new ToS with great interest last night, and being a law student was hoping that I might pose a number of questions to you about (what I perceive to be) a couple of interesting clauses.


The first of which is the way that Private Messages are now Personal Messages. The operative word being 'private'.
In S.16 "Public Forums" are defined as follows '...is any area, site or feature offered as part of the Website (including [...] or personal messaging features)' - so PMs are now defined as 'public'. Correct?

Those two words are basically synonymous, but I think the key here (from my understanding, I am not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice) is that any data you post to this service should not be private data that you have an expectation that it will stay private. This is a public service. If you sent a message to someone, what stops them from forwarding it? Or if someone posts a message, what stops someone from reading it?

S.16 then goes on to say 'You acknowledge that Public Forums, and features contained therein, are for public and not private communications.', and then the section continues with 'You have no expectation of privacy with regard to any such submission...'

Now I understand that there's no website mechanic that allows you to read another member's PMs, but could you clarify that PB staff can, if they so choose, read Personal Messages?

ProBoards' Privacy Policy (before the May 1st update) clearly stated that we have access to all pages of the forum including personal messages. When we receive reports of violations to our Terms of Service and we have to investigate, we may read these messages to do our job properly.

Does this not also mean that if PB staff so chose to do so, they could allow anyone else to view the personal messages of another?
Would I be right in deducing that anything we say in private messages we should be prepared for the possibility that these messages be made truly 'public' - and that we have no privacy in these user-to-user communications?

I'm not a lawyer, and that may be the language of the section which essentially covers PB from a legal perspective, but ProBoards has no plans to mass publish your messages folders to other users. But that doesn't mean if you send someone a message that they couldn't forward it on to someone else.

The second question I had, (and forgive me for the flippancy which I say this), but have ProBoards just outlawed lying?
S.19 (b) provide false, misleading or inaccurate information to ProBoards or any other member;
And if so, are moderators and staff of a forum expected to enforce this sub-section?



I eagerly anticipate your response! ^_^

You are responsible for your actions on the forum. We expect that the information you provide to be true (in the cases where someone posts something false/defamatory, there are clearly issues here). We do rely on the accuracy of information that we are provided (for example, when investigating TOS reports).

May 2, 2010 4:18:07 GMT -8 @tercielsilvi said:

I think this is as good a place as any to ask my one question about the new ToS:

My interpretation of section 15 (User Content) seems to suggest that all posts become property of Proboards to do what they wish, and that we have to waive all rights to out posts? It also seems to suggest that Proboards may give information about me in connection with my posts when they want?

Have I understood this correctly?

It is not our property - you are giving us the right to publish it. When you post a message to a board and we display it, that is "publishing." You still own the rights to your post, but you are authorizing us to use that post in conjunction with our Service.

May 2, 2010 5:29:29 GMT -8 K-KASS said:

I have a related question, so I'm going to add it here.

My daughter has MPD (multiple personality disorder) and pretty much has a forum where she talks to herself under like 25 different user accounts. but she's not assuming the identity of any real person. she's just posting to herself as if they were all different people...and having conversations.

so under the tos where it says "impersonate, or otherwise misrepresent affiliation, connection or association with, any person or entity;" does that mean she is breaking the tos, since she has multiple accounts... some male...some female...with different names etc?

Without knowing full details, if she is not impersonating another existing individual, I do not see why this would be a problem.