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Post by the1 on Sept 1, 2010 5:16:03 GMT -8
I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with homosexuals. If two guys want to play with each other then that is there choice and they may do as they please.
However the definition of a living organism is one that;
"Living organisms undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations."
Reproduce being key.
As I said above, I don't really care if someone is a homosexual, but I do think it is wrong (in another sense). Men and Women together have the ability to reproduce. Reproduction is probably the most important thing in this world. Homosexuals do not reproduce. In that sense homosexuals are 'wrong'.
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#e61919
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Matej
This is my status!
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Post by Matej on Sept 1, 2010 5:21:12 GMT -8
So I'll say that back then (when America first started) was African American freedom and all of that around? No, it was unheard of! The concept may have existed but you would be ashamed to support them. Now? Apparently the government likes African Americans and no one else because people seem to be supporting their continued equal rights. So I'll say that back then (when America first started) were women's rights and all of that around? No, it was unheard of! The concept may have existed but you would be ashamed to support them. Now? Apparently the government likes Women and no one else because people seem to be supporting their continued equal rights. So I'll say that back then (When American first started) were Workers rights and all of that around? No, it was unheard of! The concept may have existed but you would be ashamed to support them. Now? Apparently the government likes Workers and no one else because people seem to be supporting their continued equal rights. Actually, I think that answer is fine. The trouble is that people like you who hold those beliefs use them to deny *** people the same rights that you enjoy. If you believe marriage is just between a man and a woman, that's fine, don't marry another man then. Just don't deny other people who don't share those beliefs the freedom to do as they please. Alright, time to declare with my loud voice. It's NOT that I'm against gays at all. They have the right, so be it.
WHAT I'm against is that Gays can FORCE churches to let them get married, not that they are ***.I hope I have cleared that problem.[/quote] See, but that's just it. Separation of church and state also applies for churches. Regardless what the government says, the church can DENY such rights. Gays should be able to marry civilly (and with it, gain rights), or in churches that approve that. If a church does not approve it - they do not have to marry them and to be fair, the gay couple wouldn't want to be married there either (they don't want them there, why be there at all?). You've claimed before that lawsuits would follow, but there will be no such occurence. Just because your pastor might claim so, it might just be propaganda. Remember you need a proper claim for a lawsuit and your own constitution gives churches that same right to NOT marry them.
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Thumper
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Post by Thumper on Sept 1, 2010 5:22:43 GMT -8
To me it's "wrong" because it's unnatural. I do resent having their issues pushed in my face all the time (it seems) through the various media. If it's what some people want to do, let them get on with it - but without all of the whingeing about "gay rights" and shoving their issues forward as if they were the biggest problem in the world - they're not - not by a long way. Gay rights and gay pride movements wouldn't exist if people like you would just shut up about it being unnatural and wrong. And by the way, it is natural, it is scientifically proven to be natural. And if it's unnatural, perhaps you would like to explain the over 500 species in nature that display homosexual behaviour? And you don't think it's a big problem when "homosexual acts remain punishable by death in Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, some parts of Nigeria and Somalia. Prison for life in; Barbados (Not enforced for in private – Under review) Bangladesh, Guyana, Maldives, Myanmar/Burma, Pakistan, Qatar, Sierra Leone, Tanzania and Uganda." ( source). I would definitely say that it's a cause worth making a riff raff about. Thanks for the personal attack/feeble attempt at censorship (..."if people like you would shut up...) coupled with the attempt to put words into my mouth ("and you don't think it's a big problem....") There are scientific arguments that support just about anything - a bit like statistics.....so your argument is a tad flawed. To me it's simple - it's unnatural because sex between 2 human beings is meant to produce offspring, that's it's main purpose. Trust me - no matter how many times these people shove it where they shove it, they won't produce a baby.
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Matej
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Post by Matej on Sept 1, 2010 5:26:34 GMT -8
Gay rights and gay pride movements wouldn't exist if people like you would just shut up about it being unnatural and wrong. And by the way, it is natural, it is scientifically proven to be natural. And if it's unnatural, perhaps you would like to explain the over 500 species in nature that display homosexual behaviour? And you don't think it's a big problem when "homosexual acts remain punishable by death in Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, some parts of Nigeria and Somalia. Prison for life in; Barbados (Not enforced for in private – Under review) Bangladesh, Guyana, Maldives, Myanmar/Burma, Pakistan, Qatar, Sierra Leone, Tanzania and Uganda." ( source). I would definitely say that it's a cause worth making a riff raff about. Thanks for the personal attack/feeble attempt at censorship (..."if people like you would shut up...) coupled with the attempt to put words into my mouth ("and you don't think it's a big problem....") There are scientific arguments that support just about anything - a bit like statistics.....so your argument is a tad flawed. To me it's simple - it's unnatural because sex between 2 human beings is meant to produce offspring, that's it's main purpose. Trust me - no matter how many times these people shove it where they shove it, they won't produce a baby. They can however take care and raise an abandoned baby. Wouldn't you agree that 2 gay guys taking care of a child is much better than said child being stuck in an orphanage for 18 years or even be left on the street to die, because it was an "accident"? Remember, homosexual couples will actually have to WANT a child and go through countless of tests and prove that they can take care of one. Something that heterosexual couples have no need to do. They can live on the street and have a child and not even feed him.
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bagheera
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Post by bagheera on Sept 1, 2010 5:36:21 GMT -8
The argument that couples will force churches to let them get married is silly. Why on earth would anyone go through the hell of court (and believe me, it's emotional and mental hell) to get married somewhere where you will be looked down upon and one of the most special days of your lives will be tainted or ruined?
Would you go through court in order to force a Muslim marriage ceremony when they don't marry people who don't follow their traditions? Yeah, it makes about that much sense.
I know if I ever get married, it'll be a courthouse type thing, or a ceremony involving my own religious beliefs, not someone else's church that I have no interest in being involved with.
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Post by gfx25 on Sept 1, 2010 5:39:50 GMT -8
People just wanna argue of something as this and force there believes on others meh You should live life the way you want to and not care what others think theres always gonna be that idiot that smarts off just to upset you
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Kalimalian
Constantly biting my tongue
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Post by Kalimalian on Sept 1, 2010 5:48:03 GMT -8
Thanks for the personal attack/feeble attempt at censorship (..."if people like you would shut up...) coupled with the attempt to put words into my mouth ("and you don't think it's a big problem....") There are scientific arguments that support just about anything - a bit like statistics.....so your argument is a tad flawed. To me it's simple - it's unnatural because sex between 2 human beings is meant to produce offspring, that's it's main purpose. Trust me - no matter how many times these people shove it where they shove it, they won't produce a baby. So heterosexual couples who don't want children, or are infertile, are unnatural, by that logic? Because they don't or can't reproduce? What about couples who chose to adopt a child rather than have their own? What about gay people who do have children? There's more to being human than just passing on one's genes. I don't know why I bother posting in these topics, it's like bashing my head against a brick wall. Some people will never stop being discriminatory.
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Martyn Dale
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Post by Martyn Dale on Sept 1, 2010 5:57:50 GMT -8
Alright, time to declare with my loud voice. It's NOT that I'm against gays at all. They have the right, so be it.
WHAT I'm against is that Gays can FORCE churches to let them get married, not that they are ***.I hope I have cleared that problem. This sounds just like your argument about how schools would be forced to teach about it which i proved was wrong in seconds after reading your post. Also as i said (and proved) much of the anti gay propaganda is lies or misunderstanding, eg the teaching in school thing. Something you are still yet to learn. Just because your parents or pastor say something it does not make it true. If they told you ProBoards was a cup of coffee sitting on your desk, would you believe them? No. Try doing your own personal research and making your own decisions on things other than just ridiculous things (you know, like PB secretly being a cup of coffee ^_^)
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Post by D on Sept 1, 2010 6:16:13 GMT -8
Gay rights and gay pride movements wouldn't exist if people like you would just shut up about it being unnatural and wrong. And by the way, it is natural, it is scientifically proven to be natural. And if it's unnatural, perhaps you would like to explain the over 500 species in nature that display homosexual behaviour? And you don't think it's a big problem when "homosexual acts remain punishable by death in Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, some parts of Nigeria and Somalia. Prison for life in; Barbados (Not enforced for in private – Under review) Bangladesh, Guyana, Maldives, Myanmar/Burma, Pakistan, Qatar, Sierra Leone, Tanzania and Uganda." ( source). I would definitely say that it's a cause worth making a riff raff about. Thanks for the personal attack/feeble attempt at censorship (..."if people like you would shut up...) coupled with the attempt to put words into my mouth ("and you don't think it's a big problem....") There are scientific arguments that support just about anything - a bit like statistics.....so your argument is a tad flawed. To me it's simple - it's unnatural because sex between 2 human beings is meant to produce offspring, that's it's main purpose. Trust me - no matter how many times these people shove it where they shove it, they won't produce a baby. Yes, but do those scientific arguments have evidence? And I'm not attacking you personally, sorry you took it that way. woop and Kalimalian covered everything else I was gonna say so refer to them if you want to reply
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Dec 3, 2016 13:14:24 GMT -8
Thumper
Ah, well, yes......but......
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Post by Thumper on Sept 1, 2010 7:44:43 GMT -8
Thanks for the personal attack/feeble attempt at censorship (..."if people like you would shut up...) coupled with the attempt to put words into my mouth ("and you don't think it's a big problem....") There are scientific arguments that support just about anything - a bit like statistics.....so your argument is a tad flawed. To me it's simple - it's unnatural because sex between 2 human beings is meant to produce offspring, that's it's main purpose. Trust me - no matter how many times these people shove it where they shove it, they won't produce a baby. So heterosexual couples who don't want children, or are infertile, are unnatural, by that logic? Because they don't or can't reproduce? No. Your examples are not the same as the point I made. What about them? What's your point? I don't disagree In your view. I'll let you into a secret "some people" actually have different views to yours. Life's like that.
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#e61919
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Mar 11, 2017 17:47:30 GMT -8
Matej
This is my status!
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August 2003
wooper
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Post by Matej on Sept 1, 2010 7:50:15 GMT -8
So heterosexual couples who don't want children, or are infertile, are unnatural, by that logic? Because they don't or can't reproduce? No. Your examples are not the same as the point I made. What about them? What's your point? I don't disagree In your view. I'll let you into a secret "some people" actually have different views to yours. Life's like that. What about my example? It's thinking about the children, or is it not valid?
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Sept 1, 2010 8:08:22 GMT -8
Alright, time to declare with my loud voice. It's NOT that I'm against gays at all. They have the right, so be it.
WHAT I'm against is that Gays can FORCE churches to let them get married, not that they are ***.I hope I have cleared that problem. You haven't because you're 100% incorrect. Using your "loud voice" is not really necessary as nobody else is and it's especially awkward to be yelling and be flat wrong. Judges and government officials who conduct marriage ceremonies have to abide by federal, state, and local anti-discrimination laws when it comes to this. Churches do not. That's the nature and point of a church- it teaches its doctrine and the government does not favor any particular one thanks to that whole separation of church and state thing. While far right conservatives are more than happy to keep the government out of their church, they also are pretty insistent on putting their own agenda into government (just as long as nobody else does!), something which limits the rights of others.
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Post by Robyn on Sept 1, 2010 8:37:55 GMT -8
Alright, time to declare with my loud voice. It's NOT that I'm against gays at all. They have the right, so be it.
WHAT I'm against is that Gays can FORCE churches to let them get married, not that they are ***.I hope I have cleared that problem. This sounds just like your argument about how schools would be forced to teach about it which i proved was wrong in seconds after reading your post. Also as i said (and proved) much of the anti *** propaganda is lies or misunderstanding, eg the teaching in school thing. Something you are still yet to learn. Just because your parents or pastor say something it does not make it true. If they told you ProBoards was a cup of coffee sitting on your desk, would you believe them? No. Try doing your own personal research and making your own decisions on things other than just ridiculous things (you know, like PB secretly being a cup of coffee ^_^) Great, now I've been told by someone on the Internet that I should never again rely on what my parents, who have raised be from the beginning, tell me about the world?
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#e61919
Product Manager
12218
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Mar 11, 2017 17:47:30 GMT -8
Matej
This is my status!
17,630
August 2003
wooper
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Post by Matej on Sept 1, 2010 8:49:44 GMT -8
This sounds just like your argument about how schools would be forced to teach about it which i proved was wrong in seconds after reading your post. Also as i said (and proved) much of the anti *** propaganda is lies or misunderstanding, eg the teaching in school thing. Something you are still yet to learn. Just because your parents or pastor say something it does not make it true. If they told you ProBoards was a cup of coffee sitting on your desk, would you believe them? No. Try doing your own personal research and making your own decisions on things other than just ridiculous things (you know, like PB secretly being a cup of coffee ^_^) Great, now I've been told by someone on the Internet that I should never again rely on what my parents, who have raised be from the beginning, tell me about the world? Doesn't it make you think not in the least, that some people have reasonable counter arguments? Does it not make you think that perhaps there might be something they have yet to think of? I don't know, such compelling resources as you get on ProBoards should give you at least a little something to think about, not just blindly continue to believe that... There's a reason we're saying opposite to what your parents said, not just because we want to. I'm not saying your parents are wrong or lied to you, just that there might be different views that an educated person like yourself could look up and make their own opinion on it, rather than rely on someone elses opinion about it?
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Martyn Dale
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Post by Martyn Dale on Sept 1, 2010 8:53:32 GMT -8
No, all I'm saying Ishtar no single person is right about everything Research the matter yourself, you will see on this subject that they are wrong
If you do said research and have a problem with gays I won't hate you for it. My only issue is with people who quote non facts as fact rather than making their own opinions
I know you can't choose how people feel on certain subject matters, I just think those decisions should not be based on lies
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