CREATION OF UNIVERSE

[Spooky]

gonubierat said:

cablecat said:

Ah the old evolution vs creationism argument.

Creationism - all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.

Evolution - the continuous genetic adaptation of organisms or species to the environment by the integrating agencies of selection, hybridization, inbreeding, and mutation.

I've seen the case for creationism and read at some lengths but it is mostly flawed.

I find it fascinating that children are taught creationism from a very early age at nursery and primary school and evolutionism is introduced far later. Two completely opposing theories - just to confuse them!

Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education.

Religious tolerance aside, I come down firmly on the side evolution.

Don't be ignorant. Evolution has no place in a Science lesson either. Since when you talk about Science, u should be teaching fact, rather than a theory, which may, or may not be correct.

I don't think I was being ignorant actually!

[« tman »]

kazak said:

Who/what created God then?

Dagnabbit, back to square one!!

No one will ever know that. But if you ask that, then where'd the rock come from to make planets? Did it just pop up?

[Gonubierat]

ummm... actually a "theory" is (defined by dictionary.com) "A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena."

It has been 'devised', yet it still is not fact itself.

Who/what created God then?

Dagnabbit, back to square one!!

God is the creator, not the created. If you believe in God, you believe that God was not created, and as a popular song amongst Christian circles says: 'Who was and is and is to come'. That's our God.

[P!nk4eva]

squall2 said:

pink4eva said:

Didnt god only create "Earth"?

So i doubt he made all the trillion, trillion planets lol.

I wonder how big the universe really is.

He did? Oh well, i've never picked up a bible so i don't know these things

Still find that idea pretty ridiculous though

Im not a bible lover either, thats why i believe in the big bang, because its nothing to do with god

[xmukoux]

Personally, I do not believe in the 'Big Bang' theory, nor the 'Creation' theory.

Ah, the Big Bang. How on earth can anything expand from nothing. It is physically impossible. There may have been a mass expansion from singularity, but somthing cannot become existant from nothingness.

Well, personally I am not religious (although I do have morality). So that pretty much throws ANY super-being creations out of my belief. No offense to anyone, but this is just my thought. ^_~

[charlie]

lol he was created by errrrr........someone finish the sentence

[Gonubierat]

xmukoux said:

Well, personally I am not religious (although I do have morality). So that pretty much throws ANY super-being creations out of my belief. No offense to anyone, but this is just my thought. ^_~

Kant tried to prove God's existence through the idea of Humans having Morality.

It is called... ah, yes, 'The Moral Argument for the Existence of God'.

Kant's moral argument in brief is as follows:
* There is an objective moral law that reason tells us we must obey.
* This requires us to attain the highest good
* We can only be obliged to do something if it is possible for us to do it.
* We cannot attain the 'summum bonum' (highest good) unless there is a God to assist us.
* Since we are obliged to attain the 'summum bonum', God must exist to ensure that we can achieve that which we are duty bound to do.

Im not entirely favourly minded on this argument, but many philosophers and some theologians im sure have agreed with him. However, Freud criticises the argument quite heavily, then again, Freud's argument aint sound either... and freud was obsessed with sex and Children... (lol - I dont like Freud).

lol he was created by errrrr........someone finish the sentence

As i said before. God was'nt created. He is the Creator. 'Who was, and is and is to come'.

[Enchant]

gonubierat said:

cablecat said:

Ah the old evolution vs creationism argument.

Creationism - all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.

Evolution - the continuous genetic adaptation of organisms or species to the environment by the integrating agencies of selection, hybridization, inbreeding, and mutation.

I've seen the case for creationism and read at some lengths but it is mostly flawed.

I find it fascinating that children are taught creationism from a very early age at nursery and primary school and evolutionism is introduced far later. Two completely opposing theories - just to confuse them!

Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education.

Religious tolerance aside, I come down firmly on the side evolution.

Don't be ignorant. Evolution has no place in a Science lesson either. Since when you talk about Science, u should be teaching fact, rather than a theory, which may, or may not be correct.

for one of christian beleif that is a very nasty comment you made and she did not deserve it....Just because they do not fall into your way of belief does not give you the right to tell her not to be ignorant implying she is....

Who/what created God then?

Dagnabbit, back to square one!!

God is the creator, not the created. If you believe in God, you believe that God was not created, and as a popular song amongst Christian circles says: 'Who was and is and is to come'. That's our God.

Well your statement is true if you beleive in god, ...but alot who dont beleive in a god or gods would argue that man created god....as often asked before "did god create man or man create god"

Who the heck is Kant? He obviously failed in his proving god exist...and if anyone who thinks they can is nieve...For those who beleive god exist is a matter of faith...faith is beleiveing in the unscene and unproven....for those who beleive in god good for you....and for those who dont and have there own truths good for them....

but no matter what ones faith is...creationism or evolution the fact remains that everyone has the right to there own opinions....

[金Lordroxton大]

In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero.

On the first day, he toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was. (In those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low" signals didn't yet exist.)

On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the bit. This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the universe wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory refresh, and spent the rest of the day (and his first all-nighter) reinstalling the universe.

On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the original prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized that "new and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and glorious creation. And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit. Many bits followed, but only one
was so honored.

On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical shift' instructions. And the original bit discovered that -- by performing a single shift instruction -- it could become the Most Significant Bit. And God realized the importance of computer security.

On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Forget that add and shift stuff. Go forth and multiply." And God saw that it was good.

On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented pipelines, register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, restartable instructions, micro interrupts, race conditions, and propagation delays. Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth day must have been a Monday.

On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced Windows into the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.

[Enchant]

lordroxton said:

In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero.

On the first day, he toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was. (In those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low" signals didn't yet exist.)

On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the bit. This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the universe wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory refresh, and spent the rest of the day (and his first all-nighter) reinstalling the universe.

On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the original prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized that "new and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and glorious creation. And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit. Many bits followed, but only one
was so honored.

On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical shift' instructions. And the original bit discovered that -- by performing a single shift instruction -- it could become the Most Significant Bit. And God realized the importance of computer security.

On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Forget that add and shift stuff. Go forth and multiply." And God saw that it was good.

On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented pipelines, register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, restartable instructions, micro interrupts, race conditions, and propagation delays. Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth day must have been a Monday.

On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced Windows into the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.

Nice.....the hi-tech universe.....*huggles Lordroxton*

[金Lordroxton大]

LOL thanks *Huggles back*

[myke]

ahmetcelik said:

The Universe and its elements : all the galaxies, stars, planets, asteroids, the Milky Way, the Sun, the Earth, the Moon and billions of other immense bodies are rotating and revolving in excellent harmony. If scrutinized in terms of cosmic, physical, mathematical and bio-chemical aspects, from micro level to macro level, the Universe proves to be supplied with the most suitable design for human life.

From the expansional rate of the Universe to the location of Earth in the Solar System, from percengates of athmospheric gases to properties of sunlight, innumerous equilibriums are sustained each second and each hour. Not even one of these arrangements may occur by chance. All obey the infallible wisdom of God exhibiting His might and art.This web site displays the evidence for the creation of the Universe and it reveals the eternal might and wisdom of God, who created this great universe from nothingness.

www.creationofuniverse.com/
www.harunyahya.com/

In the infinite scheme of the universe, every possible event that can happen will happen, so this happening by chance is not only possible, but probable.

If by some chance the universe is not infinite, it is still so unimaginably massive in size, that the odds of this happening are better then the odds of the sun coming up tomorrow.

Just because something seems Divine to our feeble little human minds, does not mean it is so.

[Gonubierat]

lordroxton said:

In the beginning, God created the bit. And the bit was a zero.

On the first day, he toggled the 0 to 1, and the Universe was. (In those days, bootstrap loaders were simple, and "active low" signals didn't yet exist.)

On the second day, God's boss wanted a demo, and tried to read the bit. This being volatile memory, the bit reverted to a 0. And the universe wasn't. God learned the importance of backups and memory refresh, and spent the rest of the day (and his first all-nighter) reinstalling the universe.

On the third day, the bit cried "Oh, Lord! If you exist, give me a sign!" And God created rev 2.0 of the bit, even better than the original prototype. Those in Universe Marketing immediately realized that "new and improved" wouldn't do justice to such a grand and glorious creation. And so it was dubbed the Most Significant Bit. Many bits followed, but only one
was so honored.

On the fourth day, God created a simple ALU with 'add' and 'logical shift' instructions. And the original bit discovered that -- by performing a single shift instruction -- it could become the Most Significant Bit. And God realized the importance of computer security.

On the fifth day, God created the first mid-life kicker, rev 2.0 of the ALU, with wonderful features, and said "Forget that add and shift stuff. Go forth and multiply." And God saw that it was good.

On the sixth day, God got a bit overconfident, and invented pipelines, register hazards, optimizing compilers, crosstalk, restartable instructions, micro interrupts, race conditions, and propagation delays. Historians have used this to convincingly argue that the sixth day must have been a Monday.

On the seventh day, an engineering change introduced Windows into the Universe, and it hasn't worked right since.

Haha, thats one of the funniest things I've read. Good one. I might just post that on my board to see what response is given from my teens. ;D

for one of christian beleif that is a very nasty comment you made and she did not deserve it....Just because they do not fall into your way of belief does not give you the right to tell her not to be ignorant implying she is....

Um, now wait a minute. She made the comment that religion did not belong to be taught in schools, and made the statement that:

Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education.

This is being ignorant. And if it sounds mean to you... well sorry, it wasn't meant to be read as being mean... I suppose I should use these smilies more... but the point still remains. If creationism has no place in schools, then neither does evolution. Both are theories. And evolution has a very big place in religious education, since a vast amount of Christians do believe that evolution, the big-bang and God can all coincide in harmonious theory of creation. So My point is this, if you plan on saying that creationism does not belong in a school curiculum, be prepared to be challenged. The word 'ignorant' is a normal english word, which one definition says means: 'Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge'. In this case, knowledge. To say creationism does not belong in schools is highly offensive to me, and I can just as well say that her comment was 'nasty'. But I can look past the fact that schools are starting to place a theory such as evolution above creationism. But I will always hold, and teach those around me, and my Kids (one day, God willing) that the creation story is true.

Well your statement is true if you beleive in god, ...but alot who dont beleive in a god or gods would argue that man created god....as often asked before "did god create man or man create god"

And if you read my comment closely, you will see that I did state: 'if you believe in God'.

Who the heck is Kant? He obviously failed in his proving god exist...and if anyone who thinks they can is nieve...For those who beleive god exist is a matter of faith...faith is beleiveing in the unscene and unproven....for those who beleive in god good for you....and for those who dont and have there own truths good for them....

Gee, will I get in trouble for calling someone ignorant again? This time, the meaning of Ignorant means this (as take from the same dictionary): 'Unaware or uninformed.'

Immanuel Kant, is a very famous philosopher who lived from 1724-1804. Another one of his famous arguments is the Categorical Imperative (which is a command without conditions - i.e. one must never tell lies).
One of the principles of the categorical imperative is known as the universal law: 'Act only according to the maxi (a principle or rule) by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law'.

I hope that helps to clear up your question; 'who the heck is Kant?'

Secondly, noone can prove God exists. That is the whole idea of faith, as you rightly said. But it is very interesting to study the five arguments for God's existence. My personal favourites are the Teleological argument (constructed by William Paley) and the Cosmological argument. They really help to grow one's faith (in my oppinion) yet all arguments will be flawed. However, it is quite ignorant (using the second definition) of you to call a philosopher such as Kant, 'Naive' (correct spelling).
It is because of such philosophers (no matter how right or wrong you think they are) that we know, and understand more about the world we live in today.

creationism or evolution the fact remains that everyone has the right to there own opinions....

Of course, but is this not a discussion? My oppinion was that she made (and you might I add) some very ignorant comments. You may feel exactly the same way about me! Which is cool. I love you guys anyway. But just because I love you (in an 'agapaic' sort of way - not even sure I can use agape like that), doesn't mean im not gonna share my oppinion out.

God Bless my crazy proboard companions (hey Im a freak! )

And remember, vote 2W2L International! Because you only have...2 Ways to Live!

~Ryan

[Matej]

gonubierat said:

wooper said:

Well technicly, the Bible is right. The universe was created from nothing to our knowledge. Science calls it "the Big Bang"

So both theories are right.

Not entirely. The Big Bang assumes there was something...

Yes, energy. Wouldnt that count as something the unknowing before us (meaning, they didnt have any scientific expressions) would call "God"?

[Gonubierat]

myke said:

ahmetcelik said:

The Universe and its elements : all the galaxies, stars, planets, asteroids, the Milky Way, the Sun, the Earth, the Moon and billions of other immense bodies are rotating and revolving in excellent harmony. If scrutinized in terms of cosmic, physical, mathematical and bio-chemical aspects, from micro level to macro level, the Universe proves to be supplied with the most suitable design for human life.

From the expansional rate of the Universe to the location of Earth in the Solar System, from percengates of athmospheric gases to properties of sunlight, innumerous equilibriums are sustained each second and each hour. Not even one of these arrangements may occur by chance. All obey the infallible wisdom of God exhibiting His might and art.This web site displays the evidence for the creation of the Universe and it reveals the eternal might and wisdom of God, who created this great universe from nothingness.

www.creationofuniverse.com/
www.harunyahya.com/

In the infinite scheme of the universe, every possible event that can happen will happen, so this happening by chance is not only possible, but probable.

Is that your own theory? It's pretty interesting. If it isn't, could you pass on the philosopher, or scientist who theorised that idea, I would love to read into it more.

If by some chance the universe is not infinite, it is still so unimaginably massive in size, that the odds of this happening are better then the odds of the sun coming up tomorrow.

Just because something seems Divine to our feeble little human minds, does not mean it is so.

It also depends on how you define what is probable. I think that most of the theories that exclude a God are improbable, then again, that is my oppinion. However, you may think the idea of God is improbable. That then is your oppinion.

One question. If you believe:
'every possible event that can happen will happen, so this happening by chance is not only possible, but probable'

Would you find it probable for a God/gods to be a cause?