CREATION OF UNIVERSE

[registrar]

Let's put it this way. I do not believe that we will ever know how large the universe is or how it was created. However, it's possible that the universe just "was." That there was no creator, it was just there. For example, why do we have two lungs and breathe in oxygen? We don't have an explanation for this (I mean why can't our bodies breathe in other things?), it's just how it is. Someone didn't go out and create oxygen and create our lungs, that's just what it is and has been.

I personally think that the government should spend a little more money towards space exploration and a little less money in other things. I just think that sending people to other parts of the galaxy would be cool. Sure we can just takes pictures with our satellites and probes and stuff, but sending people there is just cool Find a stable and solid planet, land on it, walk on it, and then that'll be a huge milestone in space travel and stuff. Even if it's just Mars or something

[Gonubierat]

(the science people or the religion people).

Of course... there are those who consider themselves science/religion people! ;D ;D ;D

[Zoni]

cablecat said:

gonubierat said:

Um, now wait a minute. She made the comment that religion did not belong to be taught in schools, and made the statement that:



This is being ignorant.

Please can you quote me where you think I said that 'religion did not belong to be taught in schools'.

Now you are accusing me of being ignorant and yet you completely misquote me.

I said ....

"Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education."

Where did I say that religion should not be taught at school.

Normally, this misinterpretation wouldn't bother me but you accused me of being ignorant!!

I personally say they have an impact on each other. If God were all powerful, couldn't He make it so that random events such as the Earth were strung out on a large time scale?

I'd say that God made evolution exist so that humans could come from that. Darwin did not set evolution in motion, he was only exploring one of the rules of Natural Law that God created.

[Enchant]

cablecat said:

gonubierat said:

Um, now wait a minute. She made the comment that religion did not belong to be taught in schools, and made the statement that:



This is being ignorant.

Please can you quote me where you think I said that 'religion did not belong to be taught in schools'.

Now you are accusing me of being ignorant and yet you completely misquote me.

I said ....

"Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education."

Where did I say that religion should not be taught at school.

Normally, this misinterpretation wouldn't bother me but you accused me of being ignorant!!

LMAO....exactly....although you said it much more nicely....lol...

I am not to "ignorant" to understand when someone needs to learn a dose of humility.......I do however admit when I am wrong instead of being all condesending and righteous.

[registrar]

ilovepi said:

cablecat said:

Please can you quote me where you think I said that 'religion did not belong to be taught in schools'.

Now you are accusing me of being ignorant and yet you completely misquote me.

I said ....

"Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education."

Where did I say that religion should not be taught at school.

Normally, this misinterpretation wouldn't bother me but you accused me of being ignorant!!

I personally say they have an impact on each other. If God were all powerful, couldn't He make it so that random events such as the Earth were strung out on a large time scale?

I'd say that God made evolution exist so that humans could come from that. Darwin did not set evolution in motion, he was only exploring one of the rules of Natural Law that God created.

Call me Han Solo, but I don't believe that there's an all powerful God controlling everything in this galaxy.

[Gonubierat]

cablecat said:

Please can you quote me where you think I said that 'religion did not belong to be taught in schools'.

Now you are accusing me of being ignorant and yet you completely misquote me.

I said ....

"Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education."

Where did I say that religion should not be taught at school.

Normally, this misinterpretation wouldn't bother me but you accused me of being ignorant!!

Sorry, my bad. My interpretation of 'science lesson' is school.

Of course my point still stands, since it still applies to just the Science lesson if thats how you want to keep it.
I stick to my point. And if you haven't read my definitions of 'ignorant', then... that's your fault. I am in no means being derogatory. I am simply making the statement. You may well feel that I am being ignorant (and arrogant if you wish - I know I am arrogant - a bad trait, I know)!

God Bless.

~Ryan

[Gonubierat]

enchant said:

cablecat said:

Please can you quote me where you think I said that 'religion did not belong to be taught in schools'.

Now you are accusing me of being ignorant and yet you completely misquote me.

I said ....

"Creationism has no place in a science lesson, likewise evolution has no replace in religious education."

Where did I say that religion should not be taught at school.

Normally, this misinterpretation wouldn't bother me but you accused me of being ignorant!!

LMAO....exactly....although you said it much more nicely....lol...

I am not to "ignorant" to understand when someone needs to learn a dose of humility.......I do however admit when I am wrong instead of being all condesending and righteous.

Geee. talk about misinterpretation. You honestly think I am 'righteous'? I wish. Far from.

However, I am still waiting for you to reply to my post which I wrote to you.

Is there a reason you havent?

[Zoni]

registrar said:

ilovepi said:

I personally say they have an impact on each other. If God were all powerful, couldn't He make it so that random events such as the Earth were strung out on a large time scale?

I'd say that God made evolution exist so that humans could come from that. Darwin did not set evolution in motion, he was only exploring one of the rules of Natural Law that God created.

Call me Han Solo, but I don't believe that there's an all powerful God controlling everything in this galaxy.

Believe in the Force if you must, Han Solo, but I believe that God set things in motion.

[Kazak]

Oh, brother...

Anyone ever read any Carl Sagan? Might I reccomend The Demon-Haunted World? I dare ya...

[Gonubierat]

ilovepi said:

registrar said:

Call me Han Solo, but I don't believe that there's an all powerful God controlling everything in this galaxy.

Believe in the Force if you must, Han Solo, but I believe that God set things in motion.

'The uncaused cause' (Aquinas - Cosmological Argument)

[myke]

ilovepi said:

I agree with you to some point.

There are two types of laws God created:
1. Divine Law - the laws you must follow in order to be happy.
2. Natural Law - the laws of physics and science.

Since God is not bound to these laws, He did not use them to create the universe, but only included them to be put into the universe He created.

So you do not think God could have used science?

So basically you are putting aside the words of some of the most intelligent people who has ever lived, and choosing to go by a book that was wrote thousands of years ago by men who were from the same era of men who believed Zeus was going to strike them with lightning if they did not do his bidding?

I'm not questioning faith, or religion, but the Bible is a book wrote by man to understand that which was above his understanding.

gonubierat said:

[Hmmm, good theory, but not without its flaws. Unless you are using evolution in this theory, there is not even a chance that a monkey will be able to type out shakespeare hamlet. There are way too many factors involved. Not even an infinite amount of time would get it right. The only way this theory could possibly work is if you are counting evolution as part of theory... and even then the chances are pretty low. The monkey would have no concept of character constructs, no idea of creating plots, subplots, metaphors and imagery. The amount of times the monkey would have to press 'space' at just the right place, add in all neccessary punctuation... It just couldn;t happen. But then again, that could be showing my ignorance on the matter.

It's a little hard to comprehend because we are mere humans who are stuck on Earth, and have no real grasp of cosmec time. Someone, somewhere proposed this theory using mathmatics. You have to think of how long forever is. Not a million years, not a billion, but FOREVER. Once we grasp what forever really is, and all of the keystrokes that moneky would make, it doesn't seem so far fetched.

As for evolution, and mankind, remember, I think Earth is but one of thousands or millions, or more planets with life on it. out of billions and and billions of planets out there (most probably is like Mars, or any other planet void of life) the events taking place through a scentific perspective would not have the odds against them. We have billions and trillions of planets, all changing all of the time. For one to develop an atmosphere of Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, and nitrogen, and to be a certain distance away from it's sun is so large feat at all.

If you stand in center court, and throw the basketball, eventually you will make the shot. Now everytime, but if you repeat it enough, eventually it will happen.

gonubierat said:

[Wow... I am trying to figure out how, at the same time, is is more that possible that God was a cause, and more that possible he wasn't cause... thats like a complete contradiction... simple yes or no?

Simply put; no. Think of a coin, 50/50 chance.

gonubierat said:

[I had already discussed the idea (slightly) about God being a cause of evolution and the big bang.

Cool.

gonubierat said:

[Not impossible at all. I believe the two are very closely linked. However, as one member said, creationism shouldn't be taught in schools. That is what got me riled... because then evolution should not be taught either. However, if you are going to teach evolution, teach creation too. And teach them that it is possible for the two to be linked (even though I don't think that, but teach them the possibilies anyway!).

There should be two different classes, and the parents and students should decide together which class they would like to be in for this lesson, either class, or both. It should be a choice.

Incidentally, evolution is backed with evidence, as where creationisim is based on faith.

gonubierat said:

[So, is it not probable for God to snap his fingers and Earth to come into existence?

My personal opinion, no. Do I know for sure? I don't, as anything is possible, but I don't believe this particular example is possible.

gonubierat said:

[Not True. God is more than Able to create out of Ex Nihlio (SP?).

I believe it to be true. Matter can not be created or destroyed. It can only be altered.

gonubierat said:

[Some good food indeed. Thnk you.

God Bless

-Ryan

You're welcome, thanks for the intelligent discussion/debate.

[Spooky]

gonubierat said:

Sorry, my bad. My interpretation of 'science lesson' is school.

Of course my point still stands, since it still applies to just the Science lesson if thats how you want to keep it.
I stick to my point. And if you haven't read my definitions of 'ignorant', then... that's your fault. I am in no means being derogatory. I am simply making the statement. You may well feel that I am being ignorant (and arrogant if you wish - I know I am arrogant - a bad trait, I know)!

God Bless.

~Ryan

This is your definition of ignorant as posted on this thread - I have read them!

The word 'ignorant' is a normal english word, which one definition says means: 'Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge'.

So, despite misquoting me, you stick to your point that I am being ignorant?

Now, I don't think that is very christian at all!

[Enchant]

gonubierat said:

enchant said:

LMAO....exactly....although you said it much more nicely....lol...

I am not to "ignorant" to understand when someone needs to learn a dose of humility.......I do however admit when I am wrong instead of being all condesending and righteous.

Geee. talk about misinterpretation. You honestly think I am 'righteous'? I wish. Far from.

However, I am still waiting for you to reply to my post which I wrote to you.

Is there a reason you havent?

um....you never asked me a question in which I was to reply.....you made "arrogant"(since you refer to yourself as such) and condesending remarks...which I believe I already replied in defense to....but as far as any directed questions to me there was none. SO I am not sure what you want me to reply to....I really dont want to get into a who is ignorant and whos a pompass arse contest...if you have a legit question for me then so be it....but dont assume I am "ignorant, because I dont know Kant is or because of my typos.....

so unless you ask me a direct question , you will be waiting a long time.

[Gonubierat]

(Haha, Okay, Firstly to XkamelX. Sorry, replies wo't be that long now, since I have to actually study for a Philosophy, Ethics and Psychology exams tomorrow... which Im not looking forward. Examiners don't like me.

So just a reply on a 1 thing.

There should be two different classes, and the parents and students should decide together which class they would like to be in for this lesson, either class, or both. It should be a choice.

Incidentally, evolution is backed with evidence, as where creationisim is based on faith.

Aaah, I don't think there should be a choice... because, parents will end up doing the choice. If you are going to teach em, teach em all of it. But thats if I were the ruler of the world... which im not...

And, 'evolution' doesnt really have evidence to back it up. Any 'evidence' there is are all mostly based on theory too.

You're welcome, thanks for the intelligent discussion/debate.

At least somebody appreciates my big head! Nice one!

Now, quick reply to CC.

So, despite misquoting me, you stick to your point that I am being ignorant?

If you still havent quite worked out that me calling you ignorant really isn't being derogatory... then may God help 'constructive critism'. It was your lack of knowledge on the subject that I was remarking on. In no ways was I being 'mean' to you. However, If you think I am. I apologise. I don't like people being angry at me, im not that kind of person. I apologise.

Now, I don't think that is very christian at all!

Read my personal message on the left. Then again, how do secular people, or people of other religions define Christians anyway.

And finally to my friend 'Enchant'.

I never posted a question, but a defence, which you can find on page 2, 3rd last post. I thought it would have been decent of you to have replied, since you accused me. But never mind.

so unless you ask me a direct question , you will be waiting a long time.

Hmm, selective reading/posting? I think I suffer from selective hearing when my mom tries to tell me things I really don't want to hear... (Sarcasm - its just a joke... don't take offence please!).

I have to go learn now... I dont want too... My psychology is hard... Im writing on Schizophrenia, Depression... and one other thingie I cant quite remember... er... Im tired.

Love you guyz... Really... I do! Im being serious! SmilE! You know you want too...

Remember... vote 2W2L International Party. Because there are, only two ways to live!

[Enchant]

And finally to my friend 'Enchant'.

I never posted a question, but a defence, which you can find on page 2, 3rd last post. I thought it would have been decent of you to have replied, since you accused me. But never mind.

I thought I did make replies....as stated in my last statement....so implying I am indecent is a bit wrong...it might not have been the answers you wanted....but there was a reply...

so unless you ask me a direct question , you will be waiting a long time.

Hmm, selective reading/posting? I think I suffer from selective hearing when my mom tries to tell me things I really don't want to hear... (Sarcasm - its just a joke... don't take offence please!).

No worries....I am noticing that is happening alot to you in this thread.....but we all have our faults....you should get plenty of sleep , it might help.