Flag Burning Amendment

[ryndell]

Though Thomas Jefferson Did say "There should be a revolution every Ten Years " He was not talking army against army.That is absolute.He was more talking about i think.Dont let any government offical get too comfortable where they are at.Dont vote the same people in time and time again.Always keep new people in there .Those who know they might not get another chance at things.Usually tend to do a better job the first time around.That is why we have the power of the vote.The Constitution did not fail america.The flag did not fail America ...In some ways the people failed america .I mean they settled for the Status Quo.They got into believing everything can not change.Even when the constitution of the United States tells them We The People .. proving they can change it .

[Enchant]

niesse said:

I'm strongly against any burning of the flag--if you want free speech, get a blog. Yell. Hit a pillow. Burn a picture of President Bush, if you hate him. But to burn the symbol of one of the few bastions of freedom in the modern world? To scorn and revile those who have died to protect our freedom?

To be frank, I have no tolerance for those who wish to deface our flag. I think anyone who does such should be shipped of to Cuba, where they can try practicing free speech and seeing where it gets them.

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

[daniel]

niesse said:

I'm strongly against any burning of the flag--if you want free speech, get a blog. Yell. Hit a pillow. Burn a picture of President Bush, if you hate him. But to burn the symbol of one of the few bastions of freedom in the modern world? To scorn and revile those who have died to protect our freedom?

To be frank, I have no tolerance for those who wish to deface our flag. I think anyone who does such should be shipped of to Cuba, where they can try practicing free speech and seeing where it gets them.

We have to be careful to discern where the value lies. Does it lie within the symbol or the heart of what the symbol represents?

To give a comparison, let's compare this to religion, let's say Christianity. In Christianity, a relationship with Christ is paramount. A Bible(the physical paper copy), a cross, a church, etc are all just symbols of Christianity. The heart of the matter is that relationship which cannot be burned by others. Destroying a Bible, or a church isn't going to undermind that faith. Truly, it's an aggregious affront, but serves more to remind us of the underlying faith, which cannot be damaged except through internal neglect. In Christianity, to put a higher value(or really any significant value at all) on such a symbol is idolatry and is expressly forbidden.

I think a similar approach works for the flag. It's all well and good, but one must not mistake the physical symbol for the underlying principles and framework which are contained in the people themselves. The people are the treasure, not a piece of cloth.

[Enchant]

danielsmith said:

niesse said:

I'm strongly against any burning of the flag--if you want free speech, get a blog. Yell. Hit a pillow. Burn a picture of President Bush, if you hate him. But to burn the symbol of one of the few bastions of freedom in the modern world? To scorn and revile those who have died to protect our freedom?

To be frank, I have no tolerance for those who wish to deface our flag. I think anyone who does such should be shipped of to Cuba, where they can try practicing free speech and seeing where it gets them.

We have to be careful to discern where the value lies. Does it lie within the symbol or the heart of what the symbol represents?

To give a comparison, let's compare this to religion, let's say Christianity. In Christianity, a relationship with Christ is paramount. A Bible(the physical paper copy), a cross, a church, etc are all just symbols of Christianity. The heart of the matter is that relationship which cannot be burned by others. Destroying a Bible, or a church isn't going to undermind that faith. Truly, it's an aggregious affront, but serves more to remind us of the underlying faith, which cannot be damaged except through internal neglect. In Christianity, to put a higher value(or really any significant value at all) on such a symbol is idolatry and is expressly forbidden.

I think a similar approach works for the flag. It's all well and good, but one must not mistake the physical symbol for the underlying principles and framework which are contained in the people themselves. The people are the treasure, not a piece of cloth.

you say it so much nicer then me....LMAO.....but I agree....

[daniel]

enchant said:

you say it so much nicer then me....LMAO.....but I agree....

Thanks, and also for that other comment yesterday.

[.Lady.Niesse.]

enchant said:

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

Not necessarily. We, as a country, must draw the line somewhere. If we say that our citizens can do whatever they wish simply because it's a free country, then people could, in a sense, get away with murder. That's a bit extreme I know, but when your logic is applied to the situation, it fits.
I know flag-burning isn't as bad as killing someone. But what I find contradictory is that people would, in excercising their free speech, burn its representation.

We have to be careful to discern where the value lies. Does it lie within the symbol or the heart of what the symbol represents?

To give a comparison, let's compare this to religion, let's say Christianity. In Christianity, a relationship with Christ is paramount. A Bible(the physical paper copy), a cross, a church, etc are all just symbols of Christianity. The heart of the matter is that relationship which cannot be burned by others. Destroying a Bible, or a church isn't going to undermind that faith. Truly, it's an aggregious affront, but serves more to remind us of the underlying faith, which cannot be damaged except through internal neglect. In Christianity, to put a higher value(or really any significant value at all) on such a symbol is idolatry and is expressly forbidden.

I think a similar approach works for the flag. It's all well and good, but one must not mistake the physical symbol for the underlying principles and framework which are contained in the people themselves. The people are the treasure, not a piece of cloth.

...Hush...hush...please don't make me admit to not having a response to that.

[Mary]

niesse said:

enchant said:

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

Not necessarily. We, as a country, must draw the line somewhere. If we say that our citizens can do whatever they wish simply because it's a free country, then people could, in a sense, get away with murder. That's a bit extreme I know, but when your logic is applied to the situation, it fits.
I know flag-burning isn't as bad as killing someone. But what I find contradictory is that people would, in excercising their free speech, burn its representation.

Flag burning is peaceful protest, which the constitution protects.

[Enchant]

danielsmith said:

enchant said:

you say it so much nicer then me....LMAO.....but I agree....

Thanks, and also for that other comment yesterday.

your welcome I meant it

[Enchant]

niesse said:

enchant said:

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

Not necessarily. We, as a country, must draw the line somewhere. If we say that our citizens can do whatever they wish simply because it's a free country, then people could, in a sense, get away with murder. That's a bit extreme I know, but when your logic is applied to the situation, it fits.
I know flag-burning isn't as bad as killing someone. But what I find contradictory is that people would, in excercising their free speech, burn its representation.

We have to be careful to discern where the value lies. Does it lie within the symbol or the heart of what the symbol represents?

To give a comparison, let's compare this to religion, let's say Christianity. In Christianity, a relationship with Christ is paramount. A Bible(the physical paper copy), a cross, a church, etc are all just symbols of Christianity. The heart of the matter is that relationship which cannot be burned by others. Destroying a Bible, or a church isn't going to undermind that faith. Truly, it's an aggregious affront, but serves more to remind us of the underlying faith, which cannot be damaged except through internal neglect. In Christianity, to put a higher value(or really any significant value at all) on such a symbol is idolatry and is expressly forbidden.

I think a similar approach works for the flag. It's all well and good, but one must not mistake the physical symbol for the underlying principles and framework which are contained in the people themselves. The people are the treasure, not a piece of cloth.

...Hush...hush...please don't make me admit to not having a response to that.

I disagree I think when the govt places more value on a peice of cloth then the values it is suppose to represent then there is something wrong. It would be different if it was the actual flag over the white house or an actual historical artifact, but when its a bought reproduction , paid for with there own money, and its used to express there rights in accordance to the first amendment, it is very contradictory...

[« tman »]

enchant said:

niesse said:

I'm strongly against any burning of the flag--if you want free speech, get a blog. Yell. Hit a pillow. Burn a picture of President Bush, if you hate him. But to burn the symbol of one of the few bastions of freedom in the modern world? To scorn and revile those who have died to protect our freedom?

To be frank, I have no tolerance for those who wish to deface our flag. I think anyone who does such should be shipped of to Cuba, where they can try practicing free speech and seeing where it gets them.

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

So they fight for the flag so people can burn the flag

I am definetly against flag burning, it's disrespect to the history of the United States and what the flag stands for. But I guess it's a "right" for people to burn it, so it shouldn't be illegalized. But I guess it's a right for me to kick them in the face when they do it ;D

[Enchant]

tman said:

enchant said:

See I was one of those people who actually fought for our country and I still beleive in a person right to choose...although its a symbol of our country, it is also a symbol of the freedom of those who fought for the county it represents and if our liberties, our right to chooe, are taken away, then that flag really has no meaning....for what then is the flag really representing...its a bit contratictory to me....

So they fight for the flag so people can burn the flag

I am definetly against flag burning, it's disrespect to the history of the United States and what the flag stands for. But I guess it's a "right" for people to burn it, so it shouldn't be illegalized. But I guess it's a right for me to kick them in the face when they do it ;D

they dont fight for the flag.....they fight for there country, the flag is just a symbol or representation of it....and whats the purpose of a symbol that is suppose to represent freedom, if the people who fought for said freedom dont have the freedom to choose....

[« tman »]

enchant said:

tman said:

So they fight for the flag so people can burn the flag

I am definetly against flag burning, it's disrespect to the history of the United States and what the flag stands for. But I guess it's a "right" for people to burn it, so it shouldn't be illegalized. But I guess it's a right for me to kick them in the face when they do it ;D

they dont fight for the flag.....they fight for there country, the flag is just a symbol or representation of it....and whats the purpose of a symbol that is suppose to represent freedom, if the people who fought for said freedom dont have the freedom to choose....

I know, when I say fighting for the flag, their fighting for the country and what it symbolizes and the flag represents our country.

[Enchant]

tman said:

enchant said:

they dont fight for the flag.....they fight for there country, the flag is just a symbol or representation of it....and whats the purpose of a symbol that is suppose to represent freedom, if the people who fought for said freedom dont have the freedom to choose....

I know, when I say fighting for the flag, their fighting for the country and what it symbolizes and the flag represents our country.

the liberty bell and the staue of liberty are synbols as well....but we do not cry when there reproductions are distroyed.....why should a reproduction of a flag be any differnet...besides not every american sees the same thing when they look upon the flag....

[BEAST]

What next...Labor camps for those who talk against the government

[daniel]

This is my fear. We would be a long, long way from that, even with outlawing flag-burning, but it's a small step and small steps add up after a while of complacency.