Flag Burning Amendment

[Goodnight Vienna]

thebeast said:

vienna said:

Ignorant comment sir, those people are still alive, they still have a say in this country!

We are talking about peoples views in the 21st century, not the 20th century.

To live in the past in that way is to life a sheltered life and does not take into account peoples changing attitudes to changing times. You watch the news and how many old people do you see on it that are disgusted by this government this and this government that and I did not fight in a war to see those politicians remove my rights.

Ignorant comment I dont think so.

You just made my point sir, THE GOVERNMENT why burn the nations flag if its the LABOUR government that people are bitter with, is idiotic to the max, in that case if you wanna burn something, burn the labour party flag or images of Blair, surely!

I stand by what i said IGNORANT COMMENT

[Zoni]

renegade said:

vienna said:

Just a piece of cloth that MANY people in America find a symbol of their nation & something to be proud of, go anywhere in the world, you would find people of all colours flying their particular flag, i see your statement as a bit ignorant to patriots around the world who have fought wars under a particular flag.

So does the country change if you change the flag?

vienna said:

So its ok for people to commit a random act of disrespect & vandalism then? People who protest do it against a certain government in the main, why burn the flag, the flag is for everyone not just the powers that be!

How is it "random" or "vandsalism"? I didn't say that people should be free to walk into a shop and burn its entire collection of flags, but if someone goes to a shop, buys one, takes it home and then chooses to burn it during a protest march (for example), then what's the problem?

As for it being disrespectful - that's basically the idea of burning the flag in the first place. But banning flag burning will simply mean that burning the flag becomes a more rebellious act.

A big example of this is your house: you're allowed to use it, but you're not allowed to set it on fire or sell it to whoever you want.

[BEAST]

vienna said:

thebeast said:

We are talking about peoples views in the 21st century, not the 20th century.

To live in the past in that way is to life a sheltered life and does not take into account peoples changing attitudes to changing times. You watch the news and how many old people do you see on it that are disgusted by this government this and this government that and I did not fight in a war to see those politicians remove my rights.

Ignorant comment I dont think so.

You just made my point sir, THE GOVERNMENT why burn the nations flag if its the LABOUR government that people are bitter with, is idiotic to the max, in that case if you wanna burn something, burn the labour party flag or images of Blair, surely!

I stand by what i said IGNORANT COMMENT

I give up and will walk away from this.

Before I do tho I will add that America is in danger of erroding peoples rights to express their opinions through whatever legal actions they choose, be it burning the flag to show their disgust at the actions of their country or not.

[Renegade]

ryndell said:

But is it a change for the better .. I dont think so .I think the liberals ,and those people who complain and moan about every little thing , no matter what it is are to blame sorry, but this is something from an educated oppinion stand point here.

Do you ever actually make any points other than blaming everything on the liberals? Yet again I have to point out that most of my political views are right-wing.

Oh and if you're going to comment on my education, please be sure to check what you've typed before you post. "Oppinion" should be "opinion", and "america" should start with a capital A (as all proper nouns should do).

ryndell said:

People have gotten to the point where they just dont care anymore.

The idea of burning a flag in protest is that you're protesting against something, which implies a great deal of care for the cause.

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

ryndell said:

But is it a change for the better .. I dont think so .I think the liberals ,and those people who complain and moan about every little thing , no matter what it is are to blame sorry, but this is something from an educated oppinion stand point here.

Do you ever actually make any points other than blaming everything on the liberals? Yet again I have to point out that most of my political views are right-wing.

Oh and if you're going to comment on my education, please be sure to check what you've typed before you post. "Oppinion" should be "opinion", and "america" should start with a capital A (as all proper nouns should do).

ryndell said:

People have gotten to the point where they just dont care anymore.

The idea of burning a flag in protest is that you're protesting against something, which implies a great deal of care for the cause.

But surely Renegade, protest against the government without having to insult many people by burning the flag, i not trying to cause aggro here, just speaking common sense, it is offensive to many people.

[Renegade]

vienna said:

But surely Renegade, protest against the government without having to insult many people by burning the flag, i not trying to cause aggro here, just speaking common sense, it is offensive to many people.

Flag burning = front page news = more awareness of the protest.

If flag burning is made illegal, it will simply mean that someone who does burn a flag will be even more newsworthy as they will be breaking the law as well as making their protest.

[Enchant]

How one sees the flag is perspective....I know alot of vets who would be the first to stand over a burning flag in protest. The goverment is choking our liberties away...and if a shock effect as buring something that the goverment considers to"represent" is the only way to show this then I say so be it. The goverment listens to what it wants to listen to and in order to get one voice heard, you must shut the rest up. A burning of a 5 dollar flag is not going to cause a nation to fall...if it does then why have a goverment. This country should be For the people not for the flag......

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

vienna said:

But surely Renegade, protest against the government without having to insult many people by burning the flag, i not trying to cause aggro here, just speaking common sense, it is offensive to many people.

Flag burning = front page news = more awareness of the protest.

If flag burning is made illegal, it will simply mean that someone who does burn a flag will be even more newsworthy as they will be breaking the law as well as making their protest.

Its just ridiculous though, why insult many people who may actually agree with your point of protest, by burning the flag.

An example from my own experience, for years the IRA bombed London, my home, i didnt feel the need to burn the Irish tricolour, the Irish tricolour represents the decent people of Irleand as well as the criminals of the IRA, see my point?

[ryndell]

I dont blame anyone for anything.I just call it as i see it.The liberals do enough of their own ,for me to form the oppinion i have .They are the ones who gave me the ammo.I just call it as i see it.The founding fathers if the were living today would have not condoned any of what is going on now.They would find it offensive to what they gave us.They would consider the burning of the flag treasoness, however the would also see as why people got to that point.Burning the flag is never a good thing , Marches , peaceful protests ,Using your freedom of speech ...Key word SPEECH. You use your mouth to protest , not burn the flag .Freedom of the Press You write your protests .You do not burn the flag.No where in the first admendment does it say " You have the right to burn the flag of the united states of america ".If you can show me in the constitution of the united states exactly where it gives you the right to burn the flag of the united states of america .Then I will say ok you have that right,but no where in there does it say this.

[Renegade]

vienna said:

An example from my own experience, for years the IRA bombed London, my home, i didnt feel the need to burn the Irish tricolour, the Irish tricolour represents the decent people of Irleand as well as the criminals of the IRA, see my point?

The IRA are a breakaway group and do not really represent Ireland as a whole.

On the other hand, if the governments of Northern Ireland and Eire allied together and declared war on the UK, I think you would be more justified in burning the Tricolour.

[Enchant]

ryndell said:

I dont blame anyone for anything.I just call it as i see it.The liberals do enough of their own ,for me to form the oppinion i have .They are the ones who gave me the ammo.I just call it as i see it.The founding fathers if the were living today would have not condoned any of what is going on now.They would find it offensive to what they gave us.They would consider the burning of the flag treasoness, however the would also see as why people got to that point.Burning the flag is never a good thing , Marches , peaceful protests ,Using your freedom of speech ...Key word SPEECH. You use your mouth to protest , not burn the flag .Freedom of the Press You write your protests .You do not burn the flag.No where in the first admendment does it say " You have the right to burn the flag of the united states of america ".If you can show me in the constitution of the united states exactly where it gives you the right to burn the flag of the united states of america .Then I will say ok you have that right,but no where in there does it say this.

our founding fathers had slaves and and enslaved....of course they would be pissed.....the word freedom meant something differnet then

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

vienna said:

An example from my own experience, for years the IRA bombed London, my home, i didnt feel the need to burn the Irish tricolour, the Irish tricolour represents the decent people of Irleand as well as the criminals of the IRA, see my point?

The IRA are a breakaway group and do not really represent Ireland as a whole.

On the other hand, if the governments of Northern Ireland and Eire allied together and declared war on the UK, I think you would be more justified in burning the Tricolour.

But then we would be at war, totally different scenario, the question here is burning a flag of a nation in the said country. For this thread America.

[Renegade]

ryndell said:

I dont blame anyone for anything.I just call it as i see it.The liberals do enough of their own ,for me to form the oppinion i have .They are the ones who gave me the ammo.I just call it as i see it.The founding fathers if the were living today would have not condoned any of what is going on now.They would find it offensive to what they gave us.They would consider the burning of the flag treasoness, however the would also see as why people got to that point.Burning the flag is never a good thing , Marches , peaceful protests ,Using your freedom of speech ...Key word SPEECH. You use your mouth to protest , not burn the flag .Freedom of the Press You write your protests .You do not burn the flag.No where in the first admendment does it say " You have the right to burn the flag of the united states of america ".If you can show me in the constitution of the united states exactly where it gives you the right to burn the flag of the united states of america .Then I will say ok you have that right,but no where in there does it say this.

How many times do I have to point out to you that I mainly have rightwing (ie not liberal) views before you stop going on about "liberals do this, liberals do that, it's all their fault"? (Btw, my actual political support goes to the MRL, which are neither right or left wing... they're up in the clouds somewhere ).

It also doesn't currently say anywhere in the constitution that you can't burn the American flag (that's the point of the propsed amendment), so using the constitution to back up your answer doesn't work in this situation.

[Renegade]

vienna said:

But then we would be at war, totally different scenario, the question here is burning a flag of a nation in the said country. For this thread America.

The IRA bombings are not a similar scenario to protests in America either.

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

vienna said:

But then we would be at war, totally different scenario, the question here is burning a flag of a nation in the said country. For this thread America.

The IRA bombings are not a similar scenario to protests in America either.

No but you could say, because here in London there is a big Irish community, i decided to not burn the Irish flag out of respect to those decent people!

It all comes down to once again, RESPECT!