Link and Bookmark problems

[Former Member]

I would like to request that posted links open in a new window please.   At the moment it would seem that some do and some don't. 

[pawl]

I think it has something to do with whether or not they include http:// or use ubbc.

No tags;
www.purple.com
www.purple.com
purple.com

With [url ]
www.purple.com
www.purple.com
purple.com

With [url=]
www.purple.com
www.purple.com
purple.com

[Former Member]

Oh that's why is it - shucks! v4 links open in a new window, don't they.

[Former Member]

Problem is this - clicking on a link that opens in a new window, do quite a bit of browsing at the link, then have to use the back button lots of times to come back to where I started. 

[Entris]

I'd love this one. Donno how many times I have X-ed a tab only to find out that i should have backed it up instead lol

[Rosefriend]

Pleased it's not only me!!

RF

[aRMY83]

Dec 10, 2012 9:18:44 GMT -8 @ritab said:

Problem is this - clicking on a link that opens in a new window, do quite a bit of browsing at the link, then have to use the back button lots of times to come back to where I started. 

Ditto on this for sure.

[Ryan Roos]

How you format a link is up to you. You control how it opens. pawl explained the different formatting. If you properly enter a URL using either http:// or a URL tag (with no target) then it will open in a new tab. If not then it's going to be the same tab. That's just how things work.

Additionally where things open can be controlled by you as a user. Ctrl + Clicking on a link will open a new tab. Middle clicking a mouse will also open a new tab. If you are some one who likes new tabs you should train yourself to get into the habit of doing these things. These work all over the internet, not just on ProBoards. That is part of being internet proficient.

We additionally do allow you to specify a target when you are using the URL tag. So you can even have control over it that way too.

[pawl]

Actually, typing the URL out in full doesn't open a new tab - the very first link in my post had the http:// - just fwiw. =P

[Former Member]

Dec 10, 2012 10:22:07 GMT -8 Ryan Roos said:

How you format a link is up to you. You control how it opens. pawl explained the different formatting. If you properly enter a URL using either http:// or a URL tag (with no target) then it will open in a new tab. If not then it's going to be the same tab. That's just how things work.

Additionally where things open can be controlled by you as a user. Ctrl + Clicking on a link will open a new tab. Middle clicking a mouse will also open a new tab. If you are some one who likes new tabs you should train yourself to get into the habit of doing these things. These work all over the internet, not just on ProBoards. That is part of being internet proficient.

We additionally do allow you to specify a target when you are using the URL tag. So you can even have control over it that way too.

I hear what you are saying and agree that should be the case for those who are professional internet users, but the vast majority of us use the internet to chat about things that are dear to us, like our hobbies and pastimes. 

A list of shortcuts like Ctrl + clicking and middle clicking a mouse would be very useful for those of us who have not had any formal Computer training/lessons. Please notice the age of those who have participated in this thread - me, Rosefriend and aRMY83.

IMO Proboards should be as 'end user friendly' as possible, please. 

[Rosefriend]

I have to agree with Rita on this Ryan Roos and I feel that you are asking too much, too quickly...

Recently you said:

"Proper web standards are to not place www. in front of subdomains. People need to learn to do things properly. There have been other features in v5 that we have adhered to web standards in order to teach people, like closing BBCode tags in the correct order."

I totally agree Ryan but we were not brought up on Computer, Ipads/Pods, Css, Html. We need help - not someone telling us that we have to learn the right procedure...I can guarentee that our members couldn't care a monkeys about the right procedure. They expect to log in on their forums and expect everything to be the same as it always was..well it isn't going to be, is it...and we have to explain everything...fine but we have to understand it ourselves first!!

We are learning Ryan but not at the pace that you obviously expect us to be be doing.. I am trying to keep tabs on good threads where things are explained but until the bookmark bugs are sorted out then I keep losing track of stuff..and as Rita says some centrally placed good info threads where things are explained in a language that non coders can understand would be of enormous help...

People like pawl and Patrick [ASE] and others have been marvellous in helping but we can't keep it all in in one go and the only way that we have is to keep asking again and again, if necessary...

I have said this before - I think an incredible amount of work has gone into making V5 and progress has to be made, the competition is enormous. Everyone keeps saying how easy things are...yes, easy for all the people that are 100% PC orientated but for people like Rita and myself, and I am willing to bet a lot of others, we need to be told things in a language that we can understand and in a pace that we can keep up with...

RF

[Ryan Roos]

As for the WWW. thing, I already announced that we support users doing it that way now. And that every forum (except Support, for technical reasons) will work with a www. appended to the front.


First let me say I meant no insult. If you heard a tone in your head I did not mean it that way.

However. Be it a hobby or a past time there is a correct way to do things. When we implement bad code, workarounds, or patch things simply because casual users do it that way, that isn't a crutch, it's a bear trap. We aren't helping anyone learn. If we let everyone do it the wrong way then nothing ever gets better. Take the www. for example. We support that. How many people are going to ever do it the right way now. ZERO. Because they can do it the wrong way. Now that is a fairly technical thing, and I'll be the first to admit that it is a widespread internet problem. One of those things where so many people are doing it wrong, that it's probably viewed as right by the majority. Even though on the technical side it will always be wrong. People just wont understand the time and money that goes into supporting such things at every company that runs a website that end up supporting that.

Now to expand on the Hobby or Pastime idea. It isn't unreasonable to expect people to learn basic things. www. in front of a subdomain, technical. Middle clicking a mouse, basic. That is not a crazy thing. That is a very simple short cut to learn. You don't even need to remember what keys on the keyboard it is. It's literally what that button does. You know how to left click, you probably know when to double left click, you know how to right click, and now you know how to middle click. If this sounds condescending I'm really not trying to be. I'm really trying to teach you guys.

If you are browsing the internet as a hobby then it only seems logical that you should know how to drive. You knew the gas and the brake, I just showed you the steering wheel (now you can control where things go, as opposed to just going). You now know what all 3 buttons on your mouse do. No keyboard shortcuts, no coding, no formatting of BBCode in a post (which most of you do seem to understand, even as a pastime ). Just trying to help you navigate the internet, properly (that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong now). But remember, there is another tool at your disposal as a user, no matter how casual.

My last point I would like to make is this. This is not the first thread about linking and where things open. And I am not the first person to suggest Ctrl + Clicking or middle clicking as a navigational alternative. Though I am the first person to have such a huge blow back for suggesting such things. Actually I have suggested these exact things before and not received such criticism. So again, I apologize if somehow this time differs from others (the word proficient?). In the past people have been thankful for the tips.



Now that being said, lets get back on topic.

With regards to how a link opens it is based on how its formatted. For every person that wants it in a new window there is someone else who doesn't. We solve this by letting you enter it the way you want it to open. And if that fails you can control it yourself. That is all I was trying to say. Again I apologize if i came off harsh or sounding to technical.

This next part is a little technical, sorry.

When you specify a URL tag in v5 (just like HTML) you can set a target. That target can be blank which will open in a new window, or it can be parent which will open in the same window. You can literally specify how you want it to work. We modeled BBCode 2.0 off of existing web standards. People who understand basic HTML will have a much easier time using BBCode 2.0 since it is based on those standards. That being said, if you are not a technical person and you do not want to learn how to do these things, we build the Visual editor just for you. If you don't like code, or don't understand it then you can simply use the Visual editor. However understand that in certain situations you are going to be limited. Setting the target of a link for example. This is no different than being a fisherman as a hobby, vs a profession. Unless you are willing to learn some technical things you will not have everything available to you as an individual. You don't have to learn all the code or all the shortcuts, but you can't expect to have everything that someone who puts the effort of learning it is going to have. That simply isn't possible. There is a line somewhere.

As for the default functionality there are people on both sides. So we err on the side of standards.

We tried to give you as much control as we could as basic users. I think we've done a pretty amazing job. We will have full documentation and a help guide and this support forum if you do want to learn things.

The simplest thing I can teach you related to this thread is the middle click. I didn't think that would be so complex as to get the response above. Though again I say sorry if you thought I was being mean or condescending. It hurts me to hear you say that people like Paul and Patrick [ASE] and others have been marvellous in helping with the implication that I have not. I have to come at these things from a different angle than they do. However that is no excuse for kindness. I will make an effort to me more conscientious of my audience when giving advice on the correct (proper or proficient) way of doing things. Thank you.

EDIT: I will be doing a full review of all the ways you can link things. Similar to how pawl did. I will verify and ensure that all links are functioning as we intend and that they are opening in new windows or not as we intend. This will be based on standards, since opinions fall on both sides. And if you want to guarantee control as a user then we hope that you will be open to learning a thing or two about navigating the internet (not just ProBoards).

[Former Member]

Thanks for your reply Ryan Roos I need to read through it again before I can reply properly. In the meantime I thought I should let you know that I don't have a middle mouse, I have a wheel.....

[Ryan Roos]

Dec 11, 2012 8:28:41 GMT -8 @ritab said:

Thanks for your reply Ryan Roos I need to read through it again before I can reply properly. In the meantime I thought I should let you know that I don't have a middle mouse, I have a wheel.....

Click down on the wheel. It takes some getting used to, but that is your middle mouse button.

[Rosefriend]

Thank you Ryan Roos for being so open...

I worked on computers in the days that a whole room was filled with stuff...I actually worked for Pioneer (Des Moines) in their German branch. We had an internal PM system way before systems came to be what they are today. I swore I would never get involved with computers again until one day my SIL gave me an old laptop - the rest is history... Recently he watched me online and was astounded at things that I can do...I can safely say that a lot of things I now know I can thank Proboards for and after becoming an admin, which was the biggest shock of my life, I have learnt more...
I enjoy learning Ryan and the first time I changed a tiny tiny code by removing a semi-colon I was thrilled - I thought the board would blow up or something... but I did it!!

What is happening here is something different and yes I hear a tone in your voice and it is one of wanting people to understand and possibly frustration that they don't, - I didn't at all see any insult in anything  you said Ryan - as I say, possibly
frustration and a lack of patience on one or two occasions.. It isn't that we don't want to learn, it is that it is all a little too much all in one go. As I said I try to keep all these tips so that I can look back but I am getting overwhelmed with all the information that I have to understand. Also of course that at times it is a little too technical for me. I actually enjoy using BBCode and probably will continue to do so.

If there is a possiblity of having a central thread where tips and tricks can be added - well it would be marvellous...it wouldn't have to be a staff thing but anyone can add what they think could be helpful - off the top of my head as I haven't thought it out, but along those lines... tips like the middle click, the www, domains and url etc..

I read that a lot of people want to change over very quickly - I want a slow pace and will keep giving my members info at the pace that they can take it in, with info threads to look back on. Of course they will moan - however admins will all agree - get something right and no one even thanks you, get something wrong or something that they don't understand and they never stop moaning!!

I have said this on more than one occasion but I think Proboards have done a great job and it is even harder to pass that information on to others. Some take it in quickly and others, like myself, need a little more time...we'll get there Ryan , it will just take longer. You all do a good job and in a years time I suppose we will all look back and wonder what all the fuss was about...!!

As long as things can be discussed, all will be good.

RF