Stupid security captcha

[rickbobjoeman]

Get rid of the captcha thing it’s annoying

[Craig]

Hi

The captcha is an important tool, employed by many services on the internet, to improve security and limit spam. If you are having a problem with the captcha, could you let us know what the problem you are having is, and hopefully we can help getting the problem solved.

Craig

[lordkhaos333]

Yeah we do have a problem with it. Give us an option to opt out of it. I run an RP forum and I post a lot. It's really annoying to have to constantly solve the captcha thing every few posts.

[Derek‽]

May 17, 2020 6:14:28 GMT -8 lordkhaos333 said:

Yeah we do have a problem with it. Give us an option to opt out of it. I run an RP forum and I post a lot. It's really annoying to have to constantly solve the captcha thing every few posts.

The CAPTCHA system is in place to solve issues well above your pay grade.

If you have to go through this “every few posts,” that suggests either your activity is being flagged as suspicious or the forum undergoes inordinate spikes in traffic and has been flagged as a possible target for denial-of-service attacks. Either way, ProBoards has to protect the service as a whole, and an attack on one forum can affect many others. You may run the forum, but PB operates the servers, so turning off the bot check isn’t an option that’s ever going to be presented to you at the forum level.

[smhardesty]

OK, Derek. I read your last reply. I've been trying to figure the Captcha thing out for about 4 months now. I'm not having the problem on here. My problem is on eBay. Now, I know eBay problems have no business on this forum. It's not eBay I'm having the problem with. It's the Captcha. My problem over there is so bad that I have to got through 2 or 3 Captcha's just to login, then I actually have to do another Captcha TO LOG OUT. No kidding. I tried support over there and got no assistance at all.

So, maybe the problem isn't with eBay, ProBoards, my computer, rickbobjoeman's computer, or lordkhaos333's computer. Maybe there really is some hidden glitch with the whole Captcha verification process. That is at least a possibility. Right?

I fully understand ProBoards and eBay doing everything possible to protect the sites and the users. I guess the real questions are; Is there a problem with the Captcha service? Is there a better way to protect the sites?

[lordkhaos333]

Honestly, I'm thinking of ditching ProBoards. Seriously, it's starting to happen back to back... Like I solve one captcha and it leads right into another instead of taking me back to my post.

*Edit*
Turns out disabling my adblocker got rid of it... That's pretty scummy. It's fine, I have ways to get around that~

[Scott]

May 17, 2020 18:58:34 GMT -8 lordkhaos333 said:

Honestly, I'm thinking of ditching ProBoards. Seriously, it's starting to happen back to back... Like I solve one captcha and it leads right into another instead of taking me back to my post.

*Edit*
Turns out disabling my adblocker got rid of it... That's pretty scummy. It's fine, I have ways to get around that~

Per the Terms of Service, when you joined ProBoards you agreed to not use ad blocking software with our service. Please either disable when using ProBoards or whitelist our domains. Thank you.

[Derek‽]

May 17, 2020 12:52:01 GMT -8 smhardesty said:

OK, Derek. I read your last reply. I've been trying to figure the Captcha thing out for about 4 months now. I'm not having the problem on here. My problem is on eBay. Now, I know eBay problems have no business on this forum. It's not eBay I'm having the problem with. It's the Captcha. My problem over there is so bad that I have to got through 2 or 3 Captcha's just to login, then I actually have to do another Captcha TO LOG OUT. No kidding. I tried support over there and got no assistance at all.

So, maybe the problem isn't with eBay, ProBoards, my computer, rickbobjoeman's computer, or lordkhaos333's computer. Maybe there really is some hidden glitch with the whole Captcha verification process. That is at least a possibility. Right?

I fully understand ProBoards and eBay doing everything possible to protect the sites and the users. I guess the real questions are; Is there a problem with the Captcha service? Is there a better way to protect the sites?

You’re talking about two different issues/systems, though. When you find yourself having to do the CAPTCHA challenge on PB at an increased rate, that’s because a separate backend system has decided you need to complete the verification process. It isn’t the CAPTCHA provider (a third-party company) making that judgment call; that’s just the tool used once the decision has been made. eBay is probably similar, but I don’t use the site and don’t know how often the CAPTCHA challenge is supposed to be presented to a user under normal circumstances. Claiming this is a glitch with the verification process is like claiming your car won’t move because it has a flat tire, when your tires are fine and you’re lacking an engine—you’re looking downstream at an upstream problem.

The other issue is when the CAPTCHA challenge has to be solved multiple times in a row before allowing you to proceed. This could be a glitch at times, but it’s impossible to know. Modern CAPTCHAs are something of a black box in how they determine whether a user is human or a bot. It’s not like the old days when you had to read misshapen letters and type them in, which was a straightforward concept and a user understood why they passed or failed. Now assessments are made first on user/browser behavior and the CAPTCHA system has to crunch numbers to come up with a confidence score. If the score is too low you’ll have to solve a puzzle. You’ll keep solving puzzles until the confidence threshold is met or exceeded.

CAPTCHAs are designed to protect against bot attacks, so a good one will always err on the side of caution. The point isn’t to let a human in, it’s to keep a bot out. It’s better if it fails at the former than the latter. This isn’t a hidden glitch in the verification process, it’s the system working, albeit clumsily at times. It’s an imperfect system and researchers are always trying to come up with something better, but until that happens we’re going to have to deal with CAPTCHAs that are sometimes frustrating. Acknowledging the imperfection isn’t a breakthrough that will suddenly cause a paradigm shift and everything will be better shortly; we’ve had these tests for a long time and we’re going to have them for a long while still. Make your peace with the imposition.

[smhardesty]

I followed what you said, Derek. I guess you pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said, "It’s an imperfect system". I think there is a whole lot of truth in that. I spent over 30 years working in the computing industry. Everything from IBM mainframes to PCs. One thing I do know for certain. As technology has progressed and advanced, absolutes and certainties have slowly disappeared. Unknowns, gray areas, and "black holes" have become the usual and expected. I guess it's just a difference in how technology is viewed now versus in the 80s or 90s. I can say with absolute certainty that your statement that we should, "Make our peace with the imposition" would never have been accepted as a solution for this problem "back in the day". In a lot of ways that just doesn't speak highly of where we have arrived technologically.

Don't misunderstand me. Those comments are NOT aimed at you or anyone on this forum. They're simply comments about where we now are and what is the new acceptability. Programmers and code writers today seem a whole lot more lax than the group of guys I worked with many years ago. Like all things, it seems quantity is much more desirable than quality. Again, that's an "in general" comment, not specifically intended for any of you guys. I'm happy to say you guys on here seem a whole lot more anxious and willing to actually trouble shoot a problem than a lot of folks I have run into elsewhere.

Thanks.

[smhardesty]

I thought I'd post this video for you support guys to look over. Yes, I realize this is for my eBay login, but I'm not experiencing the CAPTCHA glitch on ProBoards. This is just to let you know exactly how frustrating the CAPTCHA thing can be. Now, keep in mind. I have to go through this routine EVERY TIME I LOGIN. Not, occasionally, or even most of the time, but EVERY TIME. And, as you'll see, I have to complete a CAPTCHA to LOG OUT. So I do understand the frustration the guys on ProBoards feel.

[Scott]

smhardesty, if you are using a security app/program or have your browser configured for tighter security, it's possible that it's causing the behavior you're experiencing. I have an ebay account and this doesn't happen to me, although I do get the captcha test when using Firefox and I have the "strict" settings enabled. Most likely it's reacting to your browsing environment. If you wish to pursue it further you should contact ebay.

And FYI, there are different captcha services. It appears that ebay uses a different service than we do, so trying to equate them and how they react is like comparing apples to oranges.

[Bennett 🚀]

May 18, 2020 11:30:47 GMT -8 smhardesty said:

I thought I'd post this video for you support guys to look over. Yes, I realize this is for my eBay login, but I'm not experiencing the CAPTCHA glitch on ProBoards. This is just to let you know exactly how frustrating the CAPTCHA thing can be. Now, keep in mind. I have to go through this routine EVERY TIME I LOGIN. Not, occasionally, or even most of the time, but EVERY TIME. And, as you'll see, I have to complete a CAPTCHA to LOG OUT. So I do understand the frustration the guys on ProBoards feel.

My guess is you're using some sort of VPN / proxy, and EBay's firewall has determined that a lot of traffic is coming from your VPN since there are probably many others using the same IP to tunnel through.

This is not a ProBoards problem. With your "30 years of computing industry" experience, you should know how and more importantly WHY services choose to rate limit / verify humanity. 

[smhardesty]

Scott, I don't really use any security app or package. I don't have Firefox set to "strict" either. I've looked at nearly every aspect of my laptop and can't find what the problem might be. I can also tell you that I'm forced to go through the same process on eBay with my android and also with my wife's laptop. None of the three devices are configured anywhere near the same. That's why I believe the real problem is with some aspect of the CAPTCHA process.

I know, not your problem. I understand and appreciate that. I thank you for what input you did provide. Thanks.



OK. First off. No, I use NO VPN or proxy. My 30 years of experience tells me that somebody somewhere should be able to diagnose what seems to be a very overactive implementation of the CAPTCHA program. That's what 30 years tells me. I had an online conversation earlier today outlining the big difference between how computer/tech problems are dealt with today versus "back in the day" of the 70s and 80s. NO self respecting programmer or code writer would dare let a creation of his behave in this fashion. Things are a whole lot more laid back and "lax" today. If something like this CAPTCHA problem has raised it's head back then and was dealt with the way it is being handled today, there would have been a WHOLE LOT of programmers and code writers laughing their butts off.

You obviously didn't read all of the threads related to this. I've already had the conversation with support staff on here about my eBay problem not being the same as it is on here. I've also had the conversation about CAPTCHA not being a ProBoards problem. Catch up, please.

[Michael]

Hi,

Since this is not a ProBoards issue, it doesn't really belong in the Support Board. CAPTCHAs unfortunately can't be disabled.