Flag Burning Amendment

[ryndell]

Arson is illegal .. no if and or buts ... burning of anything could be construed and shoved under the arson act if the law chooses to do so .Burning of logs in a fire place is not arson , because they allow such things.burning of trash in a barrel in some states is not arson, because the law allows this to happen,but the burning of anything could go under that arson act ... if the law chooses to put it there.

[Goodnight Vienna]

namkrowa said:

pats said:

Personally, when I see some dumbass burning the US flag for a protest I am angered. Many people died to solidify the right for it to fly and some stupid towelhead wants to light it up. I am not against protesting at all. I just don't approve of them burning somthing that sacred to us. Do we burn the Koran in the streets ? No. Because a good part of America is Atheist the flag is just as sacred. I don't know why Americans just shrug their shoulders at this.


Edit: On the house burning issue you are being moronic because fire fighters are going to risk their lives to put it out.

Saying the flag is scared is absurd. Personally, I look at the flag as a piece of cloth. No big deal.

ilovepi said:

But look at my edit on that post. It's not your flag, it's America's flag.

If I buy a flag with my money, it sure isn't owned by anyperson and or country except for myself.

In my local pub some regulars burnt the Turkish flag after a football match between Turkey & England, the police were called, but they couldnt find the culprit, the guy who burned it bought the flag with his OWN money, yet if the police had caught him he would of been arrested!

[Creeper]

ilovepi said:

creeper said:

I said as long and he is not endangering anyone else. That would include firefighters which a 15 year old cannot be if I remember right. We are talking about flag burning though and not house burning.

Im saying that burning your house can get you in jail, even if it is harmless. I hear nobody complaining about the law against arson.

Secondly, it's a symbol of America. If you don't like it, create your own flag.

Haha, lighten up and look around I'm on your side. I hate it just as much as you do but I just don't know if banning it would solve any problems.

pats said:

creeper said:

I said as long and he is not endangering anyone else. That would include firefighters which a 15 year old cannot be if I remember right. We are talking about flag burning though and not house burning.

I'm pointing out that there is no safe burning of a house. Someone will see the smoke and the fire department will come running. I also know I am 15, I am a junior which is the guy who makes sure the crap is running so the fire fighters can work. I am a 4th generation member on the department and am proud of it.

Point taken.

[Enchant]

pats said:

enchant said:

a person hating my country has nothing to do with it....you didn't read my post did you....I also stated even if an american did it....I beleive in choice...I think your more worried about the fires, from a firefighters perspective then the cause of the whole topic anyways and your derogatory remarls toawrds others is just mean. You want respect give some.... the concern should be why people American inclued are burning the flags instead of the flags themselves....flags can be remade no harm no foul...peoples civil rights taken away is permanent....a person's choice to choose being removed is permanent....

you really don't get it do you ? It's not the cloth or the thread of the flag that means didly squat. It's what it stands for. A plain white flag stands for "I give up, stop shooting" The American flag stands for what we fight for. ALong with every other flag on the planet. It's the symbolism, not the actual loss of a flag. That is why it hurts. End of discussion.

I am prior service...I very well get it...but again i will repeat..I didn't fight for a flag or a peice of cloth that is symbolic to my country, I fought for my country and its rights to freedom and freedom of choice....and until you can say the same thing you wont get it...the flag is symbolic to everyones perspective...how one veiws the flag should not stiffle there amendments rights....reguardless if one finds it offensive or not....there are alot of things I find offensive...but I dont demand a law for them...because wheather its veiw as rude or what ever a person has the right to choose...and if burning a reproduction of something symbolic reguardless if its a bible, a flag or a happy meal.....people are always going to be offended, but its an individuals right to there first amendment....I might not like the idea but I respect it and this is what I fought for.....the freedom of choice.....

[Renegade]

vienna said:

In my local pub some regulars burnt the Turkish flag after a football match between Turkey & England, the police were called, but they couldnt find the culprit, the guy who burned it bought the flag with his OWN money, yet if the police had caught him he would of been arrested!

That I can understand, however even in the very first post of this thread it was made clear that the amendment would stop people in the USA burning the American flag. Burning your own flag is a sign of protest, and completely different to burning someone else's flag.

[« tman »]

creeper said:

I am strongly against flag burning and would love to put a boot heel in the faces of people who do it but we have the freedom of speech and choice and it is very wrong to take that away.

That's how I see it. Even though I 100% disagree with people burning the flag and disrespecting our country, our country still respresents people being able to express what they want and protest against what they want and that shouldn't be taken away even if it burning a flag.

But actually from what I read above, isn't flag burning already illegal? It would be consider arson and it I went outside and starting burning my grass I would probaly get arrested or something.

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

vienna said:

In my local pub some regulars burnt the Turkish flag after a football match between Turkey & England, the police were called, but they couldnt find the culprit, the guy who burned it bought the flag with his OWN money, yet if the police had caught him he would of been arrested!

That I can understand, however even in the very first post of this thread it was made clear that the amendment would stop people in the USA burning the American flag. Burning your own flag is a sign of protest, and completely different to burning someone else's flag.

How is burnng your own flag a sign of protest exactly? Really you gotta enlighten me because i cant see it, to me it is idiotic, why burn a symbol of your heritage just because you protest against YOUR government, i hate the labour party, but i dont burn the Union or St George flags, its absurd, do you really honestly agree with people burning their own countries flag in a protest at their government?

[Zoni]

renegade said:

vienna said:

In my local pub some regulars burnt the Turkish flag after a football match between Turkey & England, the police were called, but they couldnt find the culprit, the guy who burned it bought the flag with his OWN money, yet if the police had caught him he would of been arrested!

That I can understand, however even in the very first post of this thread it was made clear that the amendment would stop people in the USA burning the American flag. Burning your own flag is a sign of protest, and completely different to burning someone else's flag.

Here's something else: can you burn a pile of paper money without getting arrested? That's something less cheap.

[ryndell]

Ahhh but here is the thing we are all forgetting .If the admendment passes two thirds of the house of representative, if the admendment passes two thirds the majority of the senate.Then the admendment is put up for vote they the american people,If the majority of the american people approve said admendment.Then it is the will of the people.It is the majority view of the united states.Therefore it becomes law .

[bryant]

ryndell said:

Can You even Imagine How many people Have died Defending what the Flag Represents.To burn such a thing ... is to disrepect those who have died defending it .It is a disgrace to burn what the flag Symbolizes, and it Should be against the Law to do so .

And it should be against the law to make laws that restrict the freedom of speech and protest. Oh wait, it is!

danielsmith said:

That's the problem, if it's added to the Constitution and is clearly worded then there is no recourse except to pass another amendment to remove it (as they did with prohibition, amendments 18 & 21 respectively).

Hmm.. well since it's a proposed amendment and not just a bill, I take back my previous statements. It may get through the whole of Congress, but I highly doubt it will make though the states' vote.

ryndell said:

The only way a flag ever should be burned is if it hits the ground in battle.That is the only way that is ever remotely close to moral.Inkjet You have it wrong .The symbol of the Flage speak a heck of alot louder then you will ever know .The American Flag Means more to americans then just it being cloth .So Yes it represents the Nation in its own way .Anyone who burns an American flag ... That has not fallen in battle .Should be held accountable for said action .

The flag means nothing to me. To me it is tri-coloured cloth used as a national diety to promote blind pseudo-patriotism amongst the majority of the ignorant populace.

It is simply an identifaction piece and nothing more. It may mean more to you, but it means nothing to me. So please, don't evoke your opinion of the matter on those of us who believe in the rights set out by our founders over two-hundred years ago.

ryndell said:

The flag should be totally left out of protests, there are other ways you can protest .Then destorying the symbol of america .

Why? It's much more effective than destroying City Hall with a molotov cocktail.

ryndell said:

The only fact in my post was .They only used to burn the flag when it had fallen in battle, and hit the ground.That is fact.Yes the rest was opinion, and a very solid oppinion.Think about this back in the 1800's if someone just went out ,and burned the american flag.You know what most likely would happen to said flag burner.He probably would have gotten Lynched.

That's not fact, that's hearsay. It's an assumption.

ryndell said:

I know the constitution ... I also know american history.I will agree that certain events that have taken place throughout americas history .Do not follow the letter, or the spirit of the constitution.But why burn one of americas symbols.It just makes you as bad as people like no offense, but this is fact Jackson who started the campaign against the indian tribes.Yes he did begin it .

You claim to know the Constitution of the United States of America yet you wish to deny us our First Amendment rights?

ilovepi said:

it's already illegal in Ohio - I see no harm in sharing the joy of anti-desecration.

Is it really? Well this unfortunate... I'll have to think of new Independence Day festivities then... hmm...

vienna said:

Some people see the Flag of their nation as sacred, something thta is part of them, what HARM is it doing to protect the flag of a nation, honestly some of you people have such ridiculous politically correct minds that it is beyond belief, or is it because this is the American flag we are talking about, i bet if it was a Palestinian flag you would all be going, respect the flag, respect the flag, remember people its the American flag they are on about here, the way some of you are carrying on its like its the flag of Hitler's NSDAP that is being protected. I wish here in England it was an offence to burn the Union or St George flags, i seen them burnt a few times by Muslim fanatics, total disrespect for the country they are GUEST in!

A politically incorrect nation will deny you of your civil and human rights. What's wrong with being politcally correct?

Claiming that politically correctness is wrong is a piss-poor arguement in a debate and will never convince anyone that what you are arguing is right.

vienna said:

Just a piece of cloth that MANY people in America find a symbol of their nation & something to be proud of, go anywhere in the world, you would find people of all colours flying their particular flag, i see your statement as a bit ignorant to patriots around the world who have fought wars under a particular flag.


So its ok for people to commit a random act of disrespect & vandalism then? People who protest do it against a certain government in the main, why burn the flag, the flag is for everyone not just the powers that be!

Just a piece of cloth that many Americans find pointless. Your argument is flawed and has no actual facts. Many is an incredibly relative term and has no place in a debate.

How is burning a flag that you purchased with your own hard-earned, working-class money vandalism?

suicideguy said:

Especially the founding fathers of this country.

Would the founding fathers of this country (the ones who all of you flag-burners support) approve of flag burning?

In a form of protest? Probably. Depending on what you were protesting, Thomas Jefferson would probably join in.

vienna said:

Its vandalism & disrespectful, why are so many people having trouble grasping that FACT, or is the real question here that its the American flag & not a 3rd world countries flag we are on about, i reckon the argument would be more 'protect the flag' if it was a little nation that imposed this, think about it people, it just reeks of anti American/ Western feeling here, after all the Iraq war is still a hot topic!

Have you no real argument? Every post you've made has been full of assumptions, opinions, and bigoted, right-wing statements that have no factual meaning/evidence and contribute absolutely nothing to the debate.

And please, buy a dictionary. Using a word improperly really makes you look a fool in a debate and lessens the integrity of your argument (if you even have on in the first place).

ryndell said:

Back before the 1960's If anyone burned the flag of the united states.I promise you the people would have been furious ,and would have found some way to hold said person accountable.

What are talking about? It was the 1960s that started the whole "Oh burning the flag is horrible blah blah blah." Before the 1960s the burning of the US Flag in protest very rarley occured.

vienna said:

Its just ridiculous though, why insult many people who may actually agree with your point of protest, by burning the flag.

Odds are, if they agree with you they won't be insulted by the act of burning a flag.

conqueringwolf said:

The flag is the symbol of our government and our country and to me burning it states that you do not wish to be a part of this country......if you feel so strong against being a part of this country then you should ship out and go live somewhere else.,...as long as you live here....you should support it....plain and simple.

Love It or Leave It is the worst argument ever. You'll never get anywhere in a debate if that's all you're going to say.

I disagree with a lot of things that happen in this nation (such as this proposed amendment) but that doesn't mean I'm going to get up and run away. I was born and raised in this nation and I'm not going let it go all to hell and fall apart to pieces. You should read this.

vienna said:

I found it hilarious!!!!!!! ;D

It's sad that you feel the need to quote yourself to gain attention and show just how pompous you really are.

Unless you're actually going to contribute something of some intellect, why are even bothering to continue to post in this thread?

ilovepi said:

Here's my closing statement for ANYONE supporting the burning: IT'S NOT YOUR FLAG! YOU DID NOT DIE FOR IT.

And no one else died for it either. They died for what the flag represents: freedom and "democracy."

vienna said:

How is burnng your own flag a sign of protest exactly? Really you gotta enlighten me because i cant see it, to me it is idiotic, why burn a symbol of your heritage just because you protest against YOUR government, i hate the labour party, but i dont burn the Union or St George flags, its absurd, do you really honestly agree with people burning their own countries flag in a protest at their government?

How can you not understand it? It is a fairly simple concept. The flag is a symbol of the nation, more specifically the government of that said nation. I'll let you put two and two together.

[Pats Freak 101]

ryndell said:

Ahhh but here is the thing we are all forgetting .If the admendment passes two thirds of the house of representative, if the admendment passes two thirds the majority of the senate.Then the admendment is put up for vote they the american people,If the majority of the american people approve said admendment.Then it is the will of the people.It is the majority view of the united states.Therefore it becomes law .

I also point out alot of the pro-burning people are not from america.

[Renegade]

vienna said:

How is burnng your own flag a sign of protest exactly? Really you gotta enlighten me because i cant see it, to me it is idiotic, why burn a symbol of your heritage just because you protest against YOUR government, i hate the labour party, but i dont burn the Union or St George flags, its absurd, do you really honestly agree with people burning their own countries flag in a protest at their government?

That's up to the individual who decides to burn the flag. To me it seems like a bit of a waste, but if someone decides that's how they want to protest against their own government, I don't have a problem with it.

ilovepi said:

Here's something else: can you burn a pile of paper money without getting arrested? That's something less cheap.

Yes you can, in the UK at least, but I think that's even more of a waste.

[Inkjet]

I still stand on the sole belief that the residents of a country represent what the country is, more so than a flag.

[Andrew Workman]

vienna said:

namkrowa said:

Saying the flag is scared is absurd. Personally, I look at the flag as a piece of cloth. No big deal.



If I buy a flag with my money, it sure isn't owned by anyperson and or country except for myself.

In my local pub some regulars burnt the Turkish flag after a football match between Turkey & England, the police were called, but they couldnt find the culprit, the guy who burned it bought the flag with his OWN money, yet if the police had caught him he would of been arrested!

That has no relation to what I said whatsoever.

[ryndell]

Weez That is just it ... Read the First Admendment again .No Where in there shall you find ."You have the Right to Burn the Flag of the United States of America."

1.Congress shall make no law on the establishment of religion or the practice their of ...You have the right to freedom of Speech (Which means you can say what you will ..Vocal like),You have the right to freedom of the press ...(Which means you have the right to write what you will).... hmmmm Nope .Now where in there does it say "You have the Right to burn the Flag of the united state of america. also in there you have the right to assemble peacefully in protest.