Flag Burning Amendment

[Pats Freak 101]

enchant said:

pats said:

SO let's make it personal. What if I burned YOUR country's flag ? What would you think then ?

I think it was your right....just because I dont agree with it doesn't mean I dont repect it, I am a firm beleive in chioce and the freedom of choice.....like I said ...the flag means differnet things to different people...I fought for my country not for the flag....and if anouther person even an american burned the flag, I would be more concerned with "why" then the flag.....this is my point...when a goverment doesn't listen and sees only what it wants, no matter how it is spinned there is something wrong.

the why ? the why is obvious. the person hates your country and since he can't burn it all, he zippos your flag as a substitute.

[Creeper]

pats said:

creeper said:

Actually I wouldn't care a bit if you bought a house then burned it as long as you aren't endangering anyone else. A house does not symbolize a country. Really though on the subject I am kind of torn I don't want people burning the flag but I don't want another freedom taken away.

No you're endangering lives. Firefighters like me would have tgo rush in and try to save it. It's ussually the "Weeee let's do this for fun" ones where one of us gets hurt.

I said as long and he is not endangering anyone else. That would include firefighters which a 15 year old cannot be if I remember right. We are talking about flag burning though and not house burning.

[Zoni]

renegade said:

ilovepi said:

I think it's kinda low to attack someone personally rather than to debate the subject at hand.

And I think it's extremely low for Pats Freak to be using terms considered racist rather than sticking to acceptable forms of debate. It isn't something I like to see at ProBoards, and it isn't something that I think should be tolerated here. It's not even like it's a one-off on his part either.

Then I would message him privately rather than destroy his credibility publicly.

[Renegade]

ilovepi said:

Then I would message him privately rather than destroy his credibility publicly.

Why should comments he makes publically not get a response posted publically?

[Zoni]

creeper said:

pats said:

No you're endangering lives. Firefighters like me would have tgo rush in and try to save it. It's ussually the "Weeee let's do this for fun" ones where one of us gets hurt.

I said as long and he is not endangering anyone else. That would include firefighters which a 15 year old cannot be if I remember right. We are talking about flag burning though and not house burning.

Im saying that burning your house can get you in jail, even if it is harmless. I hear nobody complaining about the law against arson.

Secondly, it's a symbol of America. If you don't like it, create your own flag.

[Pats Freak 101]

creeper said:

pats said:

No you're endangering lives. Firefighters like me would have tgo rush in and try to save it. It's ussually the "Weeee let's do this for fun" ones where one of us gets hurt.

I said as long and he is not endangering anyone else. That would include firefighters which a 15 year old cannot be if I remember right. We are talking about flag burning though and not house burning.

I'm pointing out that there is no safe burning of a house. Someone will see the smoke and the fire department will come running. I also know I am 15, I am a junior which is the guy who makes sure the crap is running so the fire fighters can work. I am a 4th generation member on the department and am proud of it.

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

ilovepi said:

I think it's kinda low to attack someone personally rather than to debate the subject at hand.

And I think it's extremely low for Pats Freak to be using terms considered racist rather than sticking to acceptable forms of debate. It isn't something I like to see at ProBoards, and it isn't something that I think should be tolerated here. It's not even like it's a one-off on his part either.

But its ok to advocate flag burning? Strange, because burning a flag would insult people just as much as racial abuse, i have seen that on the street.

[Enchant]

pats said:

enchant said:

I think it was your right....just because I dont agree with it doesn't mean I dont repect it, I am a firm beleive in chioce and the freedom of choice.....like I said ...the flag means differnet things to different people...I fought for my country not for the flag....and if anouther person even an american burned the flag, I would be more concerned with "why" then the flag.....this is my point...when a goverment doesn't listen and sees only what it wants, no matter how it is spinned there is something wrong.

the why ? the why is obvious. the person hates your country and since he can't burn it all, he zippos your flag as a substitute.

a person hating my country has nothing to do with it....you didn't read my post did you....I also stated even if an american did it....I beleive in choice...I think your more worried about the fires, from a firefighters perspective then the cause of the whole topic anyways and your derogatory remarks towards others is just mean. You want respect give some.... the concern should be why people American included are burning the flags instead of the flags themselves....flags can be remade no harm no foul...peoples civil rights taken away is permanent....a person's choice to choose being removed is permanent....

[Zoni]

vienna said:

renegade said:

And I think it's extremely low for Pats Freak to be using terms considered racist rather than sticking to acceptable forms of debate. It isn't something I like to see at ProBoards, and it isn't something that I think should be tolerated here. It's not even like it's a one-off on his part either.

But its ok to advocate flag burning? Strange, because burning a flag would insult people just as much as racial abuse, i have seen that on the street.

Ive known pats for a while. He's not racist, he's just angry.

[Renegade]

vienna said:

But its ok to advocate flag burning? Strange, because burning a flag would insult people just as much as racial abuse, i have seen that on the street.

If a national of a country burns their own flag, is that racial abuse?

The amendment under debate would not extend to someone in Iraq burning the American flag , since they aren't covered by the US constitution, and obviously someone of a different nationality burning your flag is going to be offensive. However before Pats Freak jumped in with his racist terms, the debate as far as I was involved in was about protesting against your own government.

[Pats Freak 101]

enchant said:

pats said:

the why ? the why is obvious. the person hates your country and since he can't burn it all, he zippos your flag as a substitute.

a person hating my country has nothing to do with it....you didn't read my post did you....I also stated even if an american did it....I beleive in choice...I think your more worried about the fires, from a firefighters perspective then the cause of the whole topic anyways and your derogatory remarls toawrds others is just mean. You want respect give some.... the concern should be why people American inclued are burning the flags instead of the flags themselves....flags can be remade no harm no foul...peoples civil rights taken away is permanent....a person's choice to choose being removed is permanent....

you really don't get it do you ? It's not the cloth or the thread of the flag that means didly squat. It's what it stands for. A plain white flag stands for "I give up, stop shooting" The American flag stands for what we fight for. ALong with every other flag on the planet. It's the symbolism, not the actual loss of a flag. That is why it hurts. End of discussion.

[Zoni]

renegade said:

vienna said:

But its ok to advocate flag burning? Strange, because burning a flag would insult people just as much as racial abuse, i have seen that on the street.

If a national of a country burns their own flag, is that racial abuse?

The amendment under debate would not extend to someone in Iraq burning the American flag , since they aren't covered by the US constitution, and obviously someone of a different nationality burning your flag is going to be offensive. However before Pats Freak jumped in with his racist terms, the debate as far as I was involved in was about protesting against your own government.

Here's my closing statement for ANYONE supporting the burning: IT'S NOT YOUR FLAG! YOU DID NOT DIE FOR IT.

[Renegade]

pats said:

The American flag stands for what we fight for. ALong with every other flag on the planet. It's the symbolism, not the actual loss of a flag. That is why it hurts. End of discussion.

Then why did you not have a problem with the UN flag (which also covers the USA, despite their refusal to follow UN resolutions) being burnt?

[Goodnight Vienna]

renegade said:

vienna said:

But its ok to advocate flag burning? Strange, because burning a flag would insult people just as much as racial abuse, i have seen that on the street.

If a national of a country burns their own flag, is that racial abuse?

No i would call it disrespectful & idiotic!!! ;D

[Andrew Workman]

pats said:

Personally, when I see some dumbass burning the US flag for a protest I am angered. Many people died to solidify the right for it to fly and some stupid towelhead wants to light it up. I am not against protesting at all. I just don't approve of them burning somthing that sacred to us. Do we burn the Koran in the streets ? No. Because a good part of America is Atheist the flag is just as sacred. I don't know why Americans just shrug their shoulders at this.


Edit: On the house burning issue you are being moronic because fire fighters are going to risk their lives to put it out.

Saying the flag is scared is absurd. Personally, I look at the flag as a piece of cloth. No big deal.

ilovepi said:

enchant said:

but if you wanted to burn a reproduction of it say a doll house representing it...burning it out of protest would not be illegel...same principal....what the flag represents is perspective ..and because its only a reproduction of what some interpet it to be, should not be held against those who wish to act on there 1 amendment rights....

But look at my edit on that post. It's not your flag, it's America's flag.

If I buy a flag with my money, it sure isn't owned by anyperson and or country except for myself.