Why proboards... Why...?

[Yori]

All right why is there a praise board but not a complaints board? I've been around NUMEROUS proboards sites that REALLY do NOT like V5. It's supposed to be easier to use? Well sorry but you're wrong. It isn't at all. Why are you forcing everyone to change? You do realize that in doing this? A lot of people are going to be moving to Invisionfree or Jcink because they're just as difficult and haven't changed so there's no real worry about them messing things up for anyone using them. 

So why proboards? Why?

Can't you just make the change optional? There are SO MANY of us forum admins out there that despise V5 because it's more difficult and also people go to log in and they have to go a really long round about way of doing so. Which also goes against V5. 

Now I know proboards is free (as are many others) but I as an admin I am seriously worried because I know I'm not the only one who's having trouble.... As in LOTS of trouble. I move my headers and footers over? It just messes up the entire site on V5. 

I'm rather disappointed and I'm currently questioning whether I even want to stay with proboards anymore. I was actually going to pay to have my own domain name on proboards, however, I am actually VERY glad I didn't.

Thanks

Yori

[Taiya]

I completely agree with what has been said by Yori!

I realize that you want to change things, and that's wonderful for you to do that, but along with what Yori said, I'd like to ask also why we HAVE to change to version five. I'm admin on a site as well and we're all dreading the change to version 5. It's complicated, and not at all better (in my opinion). I know some people will probably love it, but as asked before, why can't we chose NOT to upgrade? I haven't been keen on version 5 since I saw or heard anything about it, and it seemed like the troubles people are having continue to increase and increase. I've always preferred Proboards over Invision or jcink, but this is making me reconsider that as well unfortunately. I'm sure we've all been faithful to Proboards that will be posting here, but unfortunately this will make many change their opinions about it. As admin, the other staff and I have decided to change to Invision if and when v5 is forced upon us. Thank you for looking at this.

Taiya

[ludwing]

I would have to a agree with this, from what I have seen it is clunky to say the least. Despite what people say v5 is not easy to use. So why actually force your members to change to v5, it really doesn't make sense Proboards.

I'm afraid that v5 is a miss, please fix it so it CAN be easy to use or don't force your members to change to v5. Because in the end you will lose reputation and members would change over to different sites.

[Yori]

It isn't that I don't like 'change' I like change. I just don't like it when I have no options at all, and when it's more difficult than what I'm already doing. I like my forum how it is now. If I wanted something new. I'd have moved to a different host.

[Martyn Dale]

Praise is separate as it is inherently different from the other boards. There are no requests for changes, they are just comments effectively saying keep something as it is, we like it.

Feature requests or the general discussion boards are the best places for complaints since you are requesting a change, or discussing a feature that you think should be adjusted.

[Yori]

Thanks for that Martyn. I still have that question though... Why not make it optional and just keep everyone happy? It seems like the more logical answer to me...

[Lyssa]

I agree completely with the others. I have tried v5 on one of my sites that are closed and I loathe it! I am fine with v5 coming out, but I am not fine that I am being forced to relearn everything to keep my sites, because that is what will happen. I know how to use v4, I love v4. i can play with it and do whatever I want easily and i really don't mind copying and pasting. I joined proboards and started making sites because v4 is so easy to use and I don't have any problems with it. Its the reason I am only a member on some invisionfree sites and jcink, but my main has always been proboards because its so easy. On the other hosts though it is extremely difficult for me, and v5 is exactly like those hosts. I do not care about the plugins or little things. I like the way it is and so do many others, forcing us to upgrade is unfair. And when Mozilla or Microsoft upgrades usually they are small things, like faster browsing and easier settings, v5 is just harder and you have to relearn how to do everything. And you have to learn how to do the plugins as well. And actually, nine of the codes from v4 work in v5. As far as I can see, there are no improvements in v5. Its all different and more complex. If the change gets forced still I am sadly just going to have to leave RPing all together. Which is horrible because I sincerely love v4 of proboards and the sites I have here. I would rather it be optional like Yori has asked.

[Lyssa]

Basically that just means when v5 comes out the staff will have to be on a lot and holding all of our hands like we are toddlers. Not all of us want to change, simple as that. V4 was the first I have ever RPed on and made sites on, I am used to it, I like it. I have tried v5 already, and i do not want it. And from what I have heard from many others they do not want it either and have already been working on moving their sites to other hosts. We just want this to be optional so we don't have to if we don't want to! That's not a bad thing! Yes v5 has some nice little things, but we like what we have. Not all of us want to change. Those of you who want to change should be allowed to, but the rest of us should be allowed to keep v4. Just like if Internet Explorer or Firefox upgrades, none of us have to upgrade it. We can ignore the upgrade and stay on IE5 or IE7 instead of going to the next level. We just want the choice to upgrade if we want or keep our sites how they are. And honestly I am close to deleting my Facebook because I don't like many changes. I am barely on it as is because of those changes and I avoid anything on there that I am unfamiliar with. Also, Facebook is a social network, and the whole system hasn't completely changed. They just added little things to enhance the current version.

[Mabel Pines]

Forced conversions won't be happening for a while still, there's really plenty of time between now and then that can be used to learn how v5 works and port your themes and modifications. Don't like v5 out of the box? You can change it, and it's pretty darn easy with the new template system. And even if you aren't good with HTML/CSS/templates you can always ask for help, a lot of people here are willing to help you out if you need it.

Sadly, the staff can't just keep supporting old software forever, at some point they have to stop and put all their attention on the newer versions of the software. Pretty much all software is like that.

[Yori]

Thing is we don't want the new 'template' and 'theme' system we want to be able to simply edit our global headers and footers. Our main headers and footers and TA-DA~ It's all done! Simple. No messing around, no having to do something to do something else to then do a third thing to finally get the result you want and then if that doesn't work you have to back track and do it all again. It isn't very easy... Not by a long shot. Proboards v5 is borderline invisionfree difficult. It's like a whole new host that I didn't and a lot of others didn't want that's just forced it's way in to our rather peaceful and happy life.

Note:- A lot of us have lives, studying, jobs etc and just don't have the time to mess around with V5.

Why fix something that ain't broke as the old saying goes.

Edit:- Mands, a fair few of us out there have skins where we don't use boarders etc etc. 

kha.boards.net/index.cgi 

For instance. How do I get all of that on to the new V5? You gonna do it for me? I don't think so, is it really that difficult simply to make it optional? One thing. That's all we're asking for here. The option to change. We're not bothered about the nifty little 'plugins' etc we don't care about them. 

[kagamination]

Personally. I just... I don't know. I can list a lot of reasons why I don't like Proboards v5 - and that's my opinion. But I can understand why people like it. Of course, I know other people like v5, and I'm all for v5.

The problem is some people don't. I don't like the visual tab when posting - I hate it. And BBCode tag is a different font - a font I do not enjoy looking at when posting my things. Probably easily remedied, but I don't like the complication that arises from it. And Yori, thank you for alerting me of this thread. The biggest problem I find as a member, is that the change is unwanted for a lot of people.

Most things won't work. And that's what really makes me mad. I have a lot of friends on a resource site I'm on who are VERY talented at making amazing layouts. But the problem with v5 is that these layouts will NO LONGER WORK. And I don't think that's fair. I don't like the idea of plugins very much - due to the fact that I think it's an unnecessary thing. These skins they use things that will not convert and completely ruin the layouts, and I do not think it's fair at the very least. I've also heard that I will no longer be able to make templates, using style tags and enhanced tables. I learned it a year ago. And since there's no other forum provider that use this type of coding, yeah I might be very a bit pissed.

I want an OPTION not to convert. I don't care about v5 unless I HAVE to learn it. I'm currently an admin on a site with an admin who will NOT convert out of Proboards, so if I have to learn it I'm afraid I will not be a happy camper.

Also for Mands. How in the world am I going to convert a site that looks like this into v5? 

EDIT: Also as a member, I think I should care about how my admins are feeling about it, ne? Because if they're stressed out about it, on a site like I'm on, we can't progress anything in the plot and the members will NOT be happy. Also as much as these admins will try, I do think members will care if the overall performance of the site is different as well. The templates thing is really getting me though. I've gotten used to styling my posts - I don't want to lose that option.

[Lyssa]

I am an admin of my own sites. That's why I don't want v5, I have already tried learning the coding. I do not want to relearn everything I have already learned. And I can see many differences on your sites, I still like v4 better, nothing will change that. I am not just a member, and personally many of my members do not want the change either. I have already changed one of my sites to v5 and I still don't like it and have tried editing it and even have read the pages for help. It just doesn't work for me. I see nothing wrong with v4. And its not the admins that will be doing any hand holding, it will be Proboards staff because many people will be clueless and not know how to do these little things like the plugings. I like my sites how they are and do not want to change. That's not going to change. And I don't like asking for help all the time, and thats what I will be stuck doing if the change is not optional.

[VS Admin]

Jan 12, 2013 14:27:10 GMT -8 Yori said:

Thing is we don't want the new 'template' and 'theme' system we want to be able to simply edit our global headers and footers. Our main headers and footers and TA-DA~ It's all done! Simple. No messing around, no having to do something to do something else to then do a third thing to finally get the result you want and then if that doesn't work you have to back track and do it all again. It isn't very easy... Not by a long shot. Proboards v5 is borderline invisionfree difficult. It's like a whole new host that I didn't and a lot of others didn't want that's just forced it's way in to our rather peaceful and happy life.

Note:- A lot of us have lives, studying, jobs etc and just don't have the time to mess around with V5.

Why fix something that ain't broke as the old saying goes.

I think what's really important to note here is that you can still just use headers & footers. You are NOT forced to use the templates / themes system. You still have the option to use what you are used to. People will make new H&F codes for v5 that you can use. The plugins are also extremely simple to use and make changing your forum extremely simple.

But, like I said - don't want to use the new features? Don't use them. They are optional. You still have H&F as an option.

[Shrike]

It's important to note that, while the initial change from V4 to V5 will be difficult, making further changes/new themes/etc will be FAR easier simply because of the things we can now do with V5 (things like direct HTML access with templates, plugin keys, even things like creating new boards which now doesn't require you to loop through 4 pages each time).

I also seriously don't get people saying they'll move to another host. In doing that, you lose the following data: all posts, all members, all boards, all threads, all settings, all themes, all custom codes (not that they'd work with the other hosts' software), any ad-free or linked domains, anything else you did with the forum.

In upgrading to V5, you lose the following: the custom codes that relied on a layout based on web standards from ~7 years ago. The colours of the themes convert over as well as all settings. Yes, you'll need to convert the codes or ask someone to do it for you, but it will be MUCH simpler. Case in point: you might be familiar with the "border around forum" code in V4 which involved surrounding the forum in some tables above and below all your headers/footers. In V5? It's this single line of CSS: #wrapper {background-color: @container_inner_border_color; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 1.3em;}

As for why they can't make it optional, it's simply not possible to support the infrastructure for an old, outdated piece of software as well as the new software. They recently made it a paid option to recover accidentally deleted content and it costs $20 because doing it takes that much time away from their normal support roles.

[Mabel Pines]

Jan 12, 2013 14:20:22 GMT -8 Lyssa said:

Just like if Internet Explorer or Firefox upgrades, none of us have to upgrade it. We can ignore the upgrade and stay on IE5 or IE7 instead of going to the next level.

Unlike downloadable software like FireFox or IE, ProBoards hosts this software for you. They have to go through the trouble of maintaining it, and that's a lot easier if they don't have to maintain old versions in addition to new versions.

Also, if you're still using IE5 or IE7 then the internet is probably starting to look pretty funky to you at this point since a lot of sites and software have stopped supporting compatibility with older browsers.