Why proboards... Why...?

[DeltaDart]

Sounds like some folks don't want to spend the time learning new software functionality.  Am I a big fan of constant change?  Nope!  But lets face it, Proboards
has not drastically changed in a long time... it's due and long past
due.  I am glad to see some of the changes.

Us, the end users (like this 56 year old), always have to relearn new software functionality whether it be MS Office products, Internet browsers or whatever... that's what Release Notes, Knowledge Base Tools and other resources are for.  It just takes time and effort.  Things change, it's the world we live in, it's the world of software and hardware development... get used to it, as if you aren't already in your daily life.

And us the end users don't usually get what we want, we get what others think is bigger and better and faster for us and them (mostly them) and then we have to accept and adapt.  But if we look back we'll see that usually change is good.  That said, "want" in one hand "crap" in the other and see which one fills faster... some things never change.  Deal with it.

I too am still finding it a bit difficult to learn the details of V5, even the basics were tough at first look, but the more I spend on it, the better I get.  I am now searching for much more difficult things to do in it than before i.e. I got the basics down and then some.  And the modularity of it will make it much easier to upgrade, add-on to and tweak later.  I am ready for the upgrade... BRING IT ONE!!!

[Lyssa]

That...that actually looks really neat Brian. Would you be able to help me convert my site later?

[flyoffacliff]

Jan 12, 2013 14:28:03 GMT -8 kagamination said:

Personally. I just... I don't know. I can list a lot of reasons why I don't like Proboards v5 - and that's my opinion. But I can understand why people like it. Of course, I know other people like v5, and I'm all for v5.

The problem is some people don't. I don't like the visual tab when posting - I hate it. And BBCode tag is a different font - a font I do not enjoy looking at when posting my things. Probably easily remedied, but I don't like the complication that arises from it. And Yori, thank you for alerting me of this thread. The biggest problem I find as a member, is that the change is unwanted for a lot of people.

Most things won't work. And that's what really makes me mad. I have a lot of friends on a resource site I'm on who are VERY talented at making amazing layouts. But the problem with v5 is that these layouts will NO LONGER WORK. And I don't think that's fair. I don't like the idea of plugins very much - due to the fact that I think it's an unnecessary thing. These skins they use things that will not convert and completely ruin the layouts, and I do not think it's fair at the very least. I've also heard that I will no longer be able to make templates, using style tags and enhanced tables. I learned it a year ago. And since there's no other forum provider that use this type of coding, yeah I might be very a bit pissed.

I want an OPTION not to convert. I don't care about v5 unless I HAVE to learn it. I'm currently an admin on a site with an admin who will NOT convert out of Proboards, so if I have to learn it I'm afraid I will not be a happy camper.

Also for Mands. How in the world am I going to convert a site that looks like this into v5? 

EDIT: Also as a member, I think I should care about how my admins are feeling about it, ne? Because if they're stressed out about it, on a site like I'm on, we can't progress anything in the plot and the members will NOT be happy. Also as much as these admins will try, I do think members will care if the overall performance of the site is different as well. The templates thing is really getting me though. I've gotten used to styling my posts - I don't want to lose that option.

If you don't like the virtual tab, don't use it. Their is a setting in your profile to set the BBCode tab as the default when creating a new post, so you can just set it as the default and not use the virtual tab. But I think the virtual tab is a really good idea for those that don't know know to style their posts.

[Brian]

Jan 13, 2013 1:25:38 GMT -8 Lyssa said:

That...that actually looks really neat Brian. Would you be able to help me convert my site later?

The one in your signature? Sure.

Looks a lot easier than the other one was (I spent 5 hours on theirs! And it's not even done yet. ).

[Lyssa]

Jan 13, 2013 8:50:17 GMT -8 Brian said:

Jan 13, 2013 1:25:38 GMT -8 Lyssa said:

That...that actually looks really neat Brian. Would you be able to help me convert my site later?

The one in your signature? Sure.

Looks a lot easier than the other one was (I spent 5 hours on theirs! And it's not even done yet. ).

Actually I have 2 sites, but the one in my signature is one of them. I am planning on reopening it soon. The other one is this one. And yea, I usually keep my sites pretty simple lol.

[My Display Name]

I agree with this topic to an extent.

I love the plugins system and the template system, but the only feature I have difficulty with is the themes. In my personal opinion I don't think it's easier to edit it at all, I have difficulty navigating it and I don't like the layout. What would be cool is if in the visual editor (The live preview thing when you edit the theme) you can click a section then be taken to where it could be edited (Example: I click on the Title Bar, it takes me to that area in the editor) would make it easier.

However I am against supporting v5 and v4, it's going to be too difficult to support to completely different forum systems and honestly it will just confuse members even more. If they join a ProBoards forum running v5 and they get use to it then join a ProBoards forum running v4 they're going to be confused and won't know how to use it because It's completely different then freak out.

[AshFR]

Jan 13, 2013 18:09:46 GMT -8 My Display Name said:

I agree with this topic to an extent.

I love the plugins system and the template system, but the only feature I have difficulty with is the themes. In my personal opinion I don't think it's easier to edit it at all, I have difficulty navigating it and I don't like the layout. What would be cool is if in the visual editor (The live preview thing when you edit the theme) you can click a section then be taken to where it could be edited (Example: I click on the Title Bar, it takes me to that area in the editor) would make it easier.

However I am against supporting v5 and v4, it's going to be too difficult to support to completely different forum systems and honestly it will just confuse members even more. If they join a ProBoards forum running v5 and they get use to it then join a ProBoards forum running v4 they're going to be confused and won't know how to use it because It's completely different then freak out.

The only thing that seems harder for me is the themes the rest I don't have any problem with.

[RetroLisa]

I also found it intimidating when I first copied my board to Betazone. At this point, I think the main problem is the lack of a "code library" that is well-organized and easy for newbies and non-coders to use. And there's no "user's manual" to explain basic things that we assume will be difficult to fix but are actually easy (like setting the default posting method to BBCode). I'm sure these things will come in time, but for those of us who are here now, it makes the change just a little bit harder. For me, it's not necessarily the new codes I find difficult, it's the overwhelming number of options I have for every little thing. I have very little experience with CSS, so the many options available to me are both a good thing and a challenge.

That being said, I am getting the hang of it and venturing into new territory with things like side tables. I'm glad we've been given this Beta period to work things out.

My Display Name, I like your idea of being able to edit each component simply by clicking on it

[Thesealion]

You want to edit your headers and footers to do something, you still can. ProBoards is not stopping you from doing so. Now will the headers and footers codes that you have on your forum now work? Undoubtedly not because they are written to grab totally different elements different ways. It used to be that I as a coder had to spend an enormous amount of time sifting through tags counting to make sure I grabbed the right element. Now most of these things are very easy to grab. Not only this, the codes that I write don't have to be put in a header where they all get mixed up and lost. I don't know if you guys really understand headers and footers. Think about what you do when you use them. Do you write the codes? or copy them over? ProBoards cannot upgrade without breaking 90% of those codes anyway so why not make it easier for us as coders to write them over again and you as a user to add them to your forum? That's what they have done.

As to allowing you to stay with the version you have now. It sounds nice, but think about what you're asking from ProBoards. You are asking a company that gives you a free forum to run two versions of its software at the exact same time. I don't know much about server side stuff, but I can guess that running both version 4 and version 5 at the same time would be a nightmare for PB in general. Not only on their backend server side, but also when giving support.

If you guys really think that starting over as a forum (AKA all your posts are gone) is easier than waiting a few months for the hard release and requesting the codes you need replaced than by all means do what you want, but to me it seems like you're just trying to leach off the system. Some of you most likely didn't actually code what's in your headers you borrowed it from someone who was willing to share. Now that you're going to have to look for those codes again even if it's just clicking one button to re-install them, you're moving on because something else sounds a bit easier...

BTW: For those scared about your templates. A school forum that I am on and help run used an old Smangii skin that was clean, but semi complex to code. Before v5 I couldn't have dreamed of creating anything close to it. Now, with v5, using the CSS editors and editing the actual HTML of the forum (something that was insanely hard with v4 to do with JS) I can totally rebuild this skin...oh and BTW I haven't used a single JavaScript code yet. Boarder around forum with curved edges at the top and a copyright bar at the bottom. Welcome table 100% the width of the forum with a few mods and a bunch of bg images...it's all really easy

[AshFR]

Jan 13, 2013 19:06:16 GMT -8 RetroLisa said:

I also found it intimidating when I first copied my board to Betazone. At this point, I think the main problem is the lack of a "code library" that is well-organized and easy for newbies and non-coders to use. And there's no "user's manual" to explain basic things that we assume will be difficult to fix but are actually easy (like setting the default posting method to BBCode). I'm sure these things will come in time, but for those of us who are here now, it makes the change just a little bit harder. For me, it's not necessarily the new codes I find difficult, it's the overwhelming number of options I have for every little thing. I have very little experience with CSS, so the many options available to me are both a good thing and a challenge.

That being said, I am getting the hang of it and venturing into new territory with things like side tables. I'm glad we've been given this Beta period to work things out.

My Display Name, I like your idea of being able to edit each component simply by clicking on it

RetroLisa Wouldn't a code database  be created afterwards, like there is a V.4.5 Code Database here?

Do you mean creating codes or simply copy pasting it into you're headers  and footers?

[James [a_leon]]

Jan 13, 2013 19:06:16 GMT -8 RetroLisa said:

I also found it intimidating when I first copied my board to Betazone. At this point, I think the main problem is the lack of a "code library" that is well-organized and easy for newbies and non-coders to use. And there's no "user's manual" to explain basic things that we assume will be difficult to fix but are actually easy (like setting the default posting method to BBCode). I'm sure these things will come in time, but for those of us who are here now, it makes the change just a little bit harder. For me, it's not necessarily the new codes I find difficult, it's the overwhelming number of options I have for every little thing. I have very little experience with CSS, so the many options available to me are both a good thing and a challenge.

That being said, I am getting the hang of it and venturing into new territory with things like side tables. I'm glad we've been given this Beta period to work things out.

My Display Name, I like your idea of being able to edit each component simply by clicking on it

Was there a user manual that taught you how to, say, disable signatures, format your posts with UBBC, or properly setup your time zone? I know there wasn't when I joined (2003, with PBv3 being about 3 months after PBv3 went live). Practice and exploring are how we learn these things, and it's the same thing that'll happen with v5 for everyone. If there's questions, it never hurts to ask, the amount of people that can help is immense. A question someone asks may cause a ton of people to learn something new while trying to find an answer.  It's good to hear that you're getting the hang of it, keep at it and you'll be able to help with questions too.

[RetroLisa]

Yes, I'm sure there will be an organized database of codes and plugins in the future, that's what I said. The fact that it doesn't exist quite yet is what makes the change a little harder for people who only have basic coding knowledge. As for the "user's manual," I didn't necessarily mean a formal manual, just a central place where we can easily learn about the many new features of V5.

Most of us do learn by experimenting, and it can be fun when you achieve success. But sometimes it's more difficult than it needs to be. I see a lot of confused people asking duplicate questions in the Plugin Request forum because they can't find what they're looking for, even though their question has already been answered several times. It'll be great when all the answers can be gathered in one place and all anyone has to do is find their topic and follow step-by-step instructions or download the plugin provided. I know it took years to accumulate the awesome V4 code databases, and this will take time, too.

[AshFR]

Jan 13, 2013 21:36:25 GMT -8 RetroLisa said:

only have basic coding knowledge. 

Or no coding knowledge /:.

[Niva]

Well, I've read this thread and I've read a couple good points. But I think mostly everyone here just doesn't like the notion of change, which is perfectly justified and understandable. Forums rely on appearance to garner member growth and attract people to stay - so when v5 was kinda thrown upon us, I think (and I speak for myself only) that admins probably felt overwhelmed by the prospect of changing their layouts. I know that I was overwhelmed. I had no idea if I'd wake up the next day and suddenly, v5 was here and my skin would be gone. I juggled forums between university life, being married, and enjoying hobbies such as reading and art. So, sitting down to actually relearn the new system in BetaZone has been a challenge.

But that is the only part of v5 I don't like - the fact that it's changing. I think if we give it a chance, sit down with a beverage of our choice, and enjoy the ride it'll be a lot easier to make the change. I'm kind of bummed that not everything has been converted, but that just takes time. With the knowledge that I don't have to switch my forums over yet, I'm relaxed about the whole thing. I've always learned stuff better on my own, fiddling with things and getting those lightbulb moments. It's only hard because you're fighting it. I know it's daunting to open the admin dashboard and see the gazillions of options, coder or non-coder and think what to do first. But, eventually v4 will just be a memory and v5 will be as easy. The only reason it's hard is because it's different. I think once all the glitches are smoothed out, the plugin library (which is basically a hack manager with preloaded hacks btw) is opened, and you've adjusted to the idea of it, it won't be so bad.

Of course, there are valid points here being brought up. But mostly, the replies here are just complaints about it being different. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. There are so many people here willing to help immediately, not to mention you have pretty much all of 2013 to learn this new system...instead of sitting here and complaining about how horrible it is, head to your admin dashboard and start playing with it. Just my two cents. ^^

[Camille]

Jan 13, 2013 22:31:21 GMT -8 Niva said:

Well, I've read this thread and I've read a couple good points. But I think mostly everyone here just doesn't like the notion of change, which is perfectly justified and understandable...

...Of course, there are valid points here being brought up. But mostly, the replies here are just complaints about it being different. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. There are so many people here willing to help immediately, not to mention you have pretty much all of 2013 to learn this new system...instead of sitting here and complaining about how horrible it is, head to your admin dashboard and start playing with it. Just my two cents. ^^

After reading this entire thread also, there is this point I would like to make:

Not wanting to be forced to convert to v5 is not about disliking change, or just wanting to complain.  It is about having perfected our boards over several years time, and now we have a few months to recreate what it took fours years (in my case) to build.  During those four years I had the time to spend on my computer and ask a million questions here on ProBoards, and get codes for the H/Fs.  My circumstances have now changed and the only time I have to do work on my forum is an hour or two in the evenings.  On top of that, I cannot upgrade to IE9 with Windows XP and IE8 will not display the Side Tables properly in the v5 Betazone. That means I have to buy a new computer or use a different browser that I dislike. So, yes, I am one of those admins who are not happy about having to make the change to v5.  I just don't have the time to recreate my forum exactly the way it is now in v4, to the new v5.

---

@ Patrick Clinger:  Thank you immensely for this.  It means a lot to me that you care about the admins of your forums enough that you would extend the time for those of us who are really, really busy.

@ Brian Ordonez: What a sweet guy you are to offer this!

I truly appreciate the help and support of the staff and volunteers at ProBoards Support, and I know everyone here will do everything they can to help us make our v5 forum look like our v4. It's just that we have to do it all over again. Extending the time to the end of 2013 before we have to switch, though, will help relieve the stress for those of us who don't have much free time.

Sincerely,


ladyauburn33