Why proboards... Why...?

[AshFR]

Jan 22, 2013 18:47:34 GMT -8 Vu1canF0rce said:

Just my 2c. From working literally and digitally in management and business scenarios and having been with PB since the earlllly days I can say what I want to say with some foundation:


ADAPT!!! I will, however, say that I myself do not like change. But guess what, sometimes it has nothing to do with the person/place/thing (PB in this case); it sometimes has to be the fact that admins and such get complacent with how things are (V4.5). I love ProBoards and loved V4.5 but I strongly encourage their changes to V5 and future releases. Yes, there are also things I disagree with that maybe was or wasn't added and I thought otherwise... but it's not my choice ultimately. But from a birds-eye perspective, V5 is going to be great. Not just because it's got shiny gradients and lots of bells and whistles, but because of it's more tight-knit integration with you and me. What? Yes, Patrick and the admins/devs who wrote (are writing) the V5 (and 5.x) software have us in mind and although this or that feature may or may not exist you have to keep in mind that they can't please everyone. That's a fact ... get over it. Learn to adapt. The whole point of V5Beta was to TEST the software and report bugs not rant and rave how it sux (which it doesn't). Plus it was a BETA that we were using. Move your H/F over, create your themes, test bugs, etc. If a H/F doesn't work and you coded it then LEARN the coding and fix it. If someone else coded it then ask on the dev boards for them to update it (if they haven't already). Therefore, most H/F issues should be resolved in one of these two cases OR by way of the, WAIT!, NEW FEATURES (plugins!). The old adage stands tried and true here "There's more than one way to skin a cat". Thus 99.9% of the things we see and do in V4.5 still exist in V5 and/or are enhanced in some form or fashion. You have to get out of your complacency and live and learn. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made and I trust that the ProBoards staff were wise enough and had integrity when choosing this/that feature to keep/add/remove to V5. So you have to ADAPT. I have and will adapt to all versions PB releases because that's what an admin/owner should do. Stand up in a kind, open-minded facet and work with what you've got.

I'm positive I'll get some who agree and then those who disagree. To each their own.

ProBoards, good job with V5 and keep up the great work!

Andrew

I couldn't of said it better myself.

[Camille]

JJ, you have one of the most beautiful sites I have ever seen!  I love your version 4.5 board too, I think it is in turquoise or agua.  Gorgeous!  And thank you for expressing our frustration and confusion so eloquently.


Shrike, thank you for the tip on how to make the change for what is typed-in.  I'll try one more time.

You know, people can look at the same identical thing and have a completely different viewpoint of it.  I'm reminded of the Red Lobster commercial where someone says, "I sea things differently." 

You see the behind the scenes stuff differently than I do.  And really, that is what this thread is for.  For those of us who do see it differently, to express our opinion.  Version 4.5 is just easier for me.  I cannot change that.  I wasted four or five hours on Sunday trying to do a few changes on the v5 copy, and it was a complete waste of my time.  I'm sure ProBoards has a perfectly good reason to upgrade, to keep up with the changes in technology, but did it have to be sooooo radical in every aspect?

[Camille]

Jan 22, 2013 18:49:18 GMT -8 Pebble said:

I have to agree with Shrike, JJ & LA33!

V5 is new and I personally think it's a great it of kit! It has many more options and great sites can be made simply. (calm down JJ and LA33! I'm getting to your bit.  )

I also see the point of JJ & LA33. After spending time (sometimes years) creating a personalised forum, it's like starting from scratch and if you don't have a coding background then I can see that it can be very daunting. I've personally hepled out JJ & LA33 over the last couple of years with coding and I know that a whole database of codes are now redundant. How can this seem like a good experience?
I have limited time to code etc (and I have to be in the mood) but I'm learning something new about V5 every day. 

BUT time(and technology) moves on. Coding things to work in IE5.5 had to stop at some point (and I actually wish PB's had done away with coding for IE7 as well!).

On to a more personal note: I started coding basic/machine code/assember/C etc on a zx81/spectrum/BBC32/Commadore many many years ago (YES!, that's pre internet!) and then didn't touch a computer for 25+ years until I made a forum on PB's a couple years ago which ignited my interest again. I think it's great and if a new person made a V5 forum today without seeing V4.5 then I think they'd be very impressed. The problem is due to the time that people have spent on their V4.5 forum and having to start again.

I hope the coders stick around ( I have my bad days) but do see a problem in the future because people are being directed into the CSS and templating system to change things without knowing what they are actually doing. (advanced users?). I've written many codes that I haven't published because I don't have the time to help people with them when they don't work because they've changed their CSS or template. I write codes on a 'standard' forum for those that don't want to play about in the templates and CSS. (locked codes have , for me, stopped that community spirit of "wow! that's a great way to do it" or "you could have done it this way", but that's another story for another time)

Anyway I'm rambling and I had a point ot make but forgotten what it was!

PB's V5 is a great bit of kit. I understand JJ's and LA33's point of view and all I can say is hang in there! Everyone is still finding their way around and in a couple/few months everyone will be up to speed to help you out. There are some great coders here (who are also starting from scratch) and they give their time to help other members out.  On V4.5 the answers where there in an instant because people had been using it for sooooo long. V5 will be the same soon.

Ramble over.

PS: I would have tagged you but ALT-click doesn't work for me!

Oh Pebble, I didn't see your post before posting mine.  I think it was because I took so long writing it.  LOL!  You make some very good points, especially the one in red above.

A lot can change in a year.  Perhaps as time goes on and more information on how to make changes comes out here on ProBoards, I might start seeing it differently.  Thanks for your encouragement! 

[Stinky666]

Jan 21, 2013 12:37:21 GMT -8 Ryan Roos said:

Just an update, because it happened to come up just now here at the office.

Perfect example of why Internet Explorer is bad even for a user.

In v5 you can attach files to your post. Depending on the plan the admin has, this could be a lot of files. By default it's up to 3 1MB files. So assuming attachments are on and set for everyone to use, everyone can attach 3 files to their posts. What's even cooler? You can select all 3 files at the same time! Browse your computer, select 1, 2, 3 and upload! Wooo! Unless of course you're using Internet Explorer (any of them, even 9). In that case you have to upload them one at a time.

This is false. On my beta forum I just tested this and it does not work in Firefox.

[Thesealion]

I don't think this would be FireFox's problem...bug maybe?

[James [a_leon]]

Jan 22, 2013 18:22:24 GMT -8 JJ said:

Shrike, you don't seem to understand that those of us that are struggling do not want condescention. We definitely do not want to be told how easy it is when we are having problems trying to figure it out. We are frustrated and confused and trying to translate years of learning how to create a board that was pleasing and easy to use at Proboards and basically throwing it out and starting over. Whoopeedo, there are plugins, just go ask for them.  Really? I have followed some of those threads, and guess what, they are still making corrections. Just go add this line to this or that and it should work. Guess what, that also isn't very explanatory and doesn't always work. To denigrate us that are not coders and not acknowledge that having coding experience is a great benefit with the change is not truthful at all.  Coding knowledge does help with the changeover, it helps a lot. 

As for asking for help with a plugin? Excuse me? Proboards and other sites have had excellent codes in their database gathered from all the people asking for them over the years and we were able to do amazing things with our websites, now we are asked to start over and do all that research again and at this stage of the game, cross our fingers and hope we can come close to recreating the look we have achieved... which for me, took years. 

I took a look at the site listed in your Profile, Shrike, I found it pretty plain.  Here is mine... Hootyowl Trying to recreate that look isn't just a matter of flipping on a lightswitch and making it happen. Please understand, those of us that are upset are exactly that, upset.  We WILL come to grips with this, but it isn't an easy matter for us and we here in this thread are just looking for emotional support, not criticism because we aren't doing cartwheels at all the new bells and whistles... that we can't even figure out.

Edit: I have no idea why my link is acting up, but I am not surprised.

Your link is messed up because the BBCode is now exactly like its HTML counterpart. You use [a href="http://hootyowl.proboards.com/index.cgi"]Hootyowl[/a] now instead of [url=http://hootyowl.proboards.com/index.cgi]Hootyowl[/url]


As for your site... from what I can see as a guest, it wouldn't be all that hard to convert. If you'd like to PM me, we can talk about it a little more.

Jan 22, 2013 19:00:56 GMT -8 Camille said:

JJ, you have one of the most beautiful sites I have ever seen!  I love your version 4.5 board too, I think it is in turquoise or agua.  Gorgeous!

Shrike, thank you for the tip on how to make the change for what is typed-in.  I'll try one more time.

You know, people can look at the same identical thing and have a completely different viewpoint of it.  I'm reminded of the Red Lobster commercial where someone says, "I sea things differently." 

You see the behind the scenes stuff differently than I do.  And really, that is what this thread is for.  For those of us who do see it differently, to express our opinion.  Version 4.5 is just easier for me.  I cannot change that.  I wasted four or five hours on Sunday trying to do a few changes on the v5 copy, and it was a complete waste of my time.  I'm sure ProBoards has a perfectly good reason to upgrade, to keep up with the changes in technology, but did it have to be sooooo radical in every aspect?

v4.5 is "easy" for you because it's what you're used to. If you came into ProBoards with v5 being here and then they "upgraded" to v4.5, I promise you it'd be a lot harder. ProBoards has changed a lot since I first came here in early 2003, and it is for the better, we're not lying or trying to be condescending when we say that, we all honestly believe it. This upgrade is very long overdue.

It will take a little bit of time to get familiar with v5, that's not a bad thing. You didn't know v4.5 as well as you do now when you first started, you had to take time to learn things. It's the same case here, but you will find that as you play around, if you decide that you want to be adventurous and change some HTML on your own to see what happens (Google and this place are your friends when it comes to these sorts of things), you may come to understand what everyone means when they say just how powerful and easy changes are with v5. When you read a book, you don't just see text on a page, you're able to picture what that text is painting and see the scenes it describes. For me (granted, I am a coder), it's the same thing looking at the template engine or reading HTML. I don't see the text, I see the page that it creates.

On someday that you want to play around and learn v5, see if someone here will help you with it. Be able to communicate over some sort of messenger, or even some sort of screen sharing software so they can help walk you through it. Show you how, and then have you do it.

---

A lot of you have said that it's taken you years to get your forum the way it is now. Why do you or should you expect it to not take at least a little bit of time to recreate that? The fact you now can do it without it taking years speaks volumes of the improvement that is v5.

[JJ]

Thank you LadyAuburn for the compliment. It was all done with codes, including help from Pebble. It took time, research and tweaking.Now, I have to start over.

[Camille]

Jan 22, 2013 19:56:52 GMT -8 James [a_leon] said:

Jan 22, 2013 19:00:56 GMT -8 Camille said:

JJ, you have one of the most beautiful sites I have ever seen!  I love your version 4.5 board too, I think it is in turquoise or agua.  Gorgeous! And thank you for expressing our frustration and confusion so eloquently.



Shrike, thank you for the tip on how to make the change for what is typed-in.  I'll try one more time.

You know, people can look at the same identical thing and have a completely different viewpoint of it.  I'm reminded of the Red Lobster commercial where someone says, "I sea things differently." 

You see the behind the scenes stuff differently than I do.  And really, that is what this thread is for.  For those of us who do see it differently, to express our opinion.  Version 4.5 is just easier for me.  I cannot change that.  I wasted four or five hours on Sunday trying to do a few changes on the v5 copy, and it was a complete waste of my time.  I'm sure ProBoards has a perfectly good reason to upgrade, to keep up with the changes in technology, but did it have to be sooooo radical in every aspect?

v4.5 is "easy" for you because it's what you're used to. If you came into ProBoards with v5 being here and then they "upgraded" to v4.5, I promise you it'd be a lot harder. ProBoards has changed a lot since I first came here in early 2003, and it is for the better, we're not lying or trying to be condescending when we say that, we all honestly believe it. This upgrade is very long overdue.

It will take a little bit of time to get familiar with v5, that's not a bad thing. You didn't know v4.5 as well as you do now when you first started, you had to take time to learn things. It's the same case here, but you will find that as you play around, if you decide that you want to be adventurous and change some HTML on your own to see what happens (Google and this place are your friends when it comes to these sorts of things), you may come to understand what everyone means when they say just how powerful and easy changes are with v5. When you read a book, you don't just see text on a page, you're able to picture what that text is painting and see the scenes it describes. For me (granted, I am a coder), it's the same thing looking at the template engine or reading HTML. I don't see the text, I see the page that it creates.

On someday that you want to play around and learn v5, see if someone here will help you with it. Be able to communicate over some sort of messenger, or even some sort of screen sharing software so they can help walk you through it. Show you how, and then have you do it.

---

A lot of you have said that it's taken you years to get your forum the way it is now. Why do you or should you expect it to not take at least a little bit of time to recreate that? The fact you now can do it without it taking years speaks volumes of the improvement that is v5.

The difference is, I believe, that when I got my first forum my members and I used it "fresh out of the box."  In time, I began to read a little bit here at ProBoards and I thought "Oh, I could use that feature"  and I would go copy and paste the code in my global or main header or footer.  Sometimes I would have to have someone show me that I didn't do something right.  But I didn't have to figure out where to go for anything.  I didn't have to know how to alter css coding.  I didn't have templates (whatever they are.)  In short the old ProBoards 4.5 was really easy for people like me to create a nice looking board without any knowledge whatsoever about coding, etc.  It only took years to get it the way we wanted because the needs on our forum expanded gradually and we wanted more conveniences.

Those of you who love the version 5 will always love it in preference to the old 4.5.  Those of us who love the version 4.5 are stuck with being unhappy.

[Willing Sniper]

How do I know when our board will be upgraded?

[DeltaDart]

Jan 22, 2013 18:47:34 GMT -8 Vu1canF0rce said:

Just my 2c. From working literally and digitally in management and business scenarios and having been with PB since the earlllly days I can say what I want to say with some foundation:


ADAPT!!! I will, however, say that I myself do not like change. But guess what, sometimes it has nothing to do with the person/place/thing (PB in this case); it sometimes has to be the fact that admins and such get complacent with how things are (V4.5). I love ProBoards and loved V4.5 but I strongly encourage their changes to V5 and future releases. Yes, there are also things I disagree with that maybe was or wasn't added and I thought otherwise... but it's not my choice ultimately. But from a birds-eye perspective, V5 is going to be great. Not just because it's got shiny gradients and lots of bells and whistles, but because of it's more tight-knit integration with you and me. What? Yes, Patrick and the admins/devs who wrote (are writing) the V5 (and 5.x) software have us in mind and although this or that feature may or may not exist you have to keep in mind that they can't please everyone. That's a fact ... get over it. Learn to adapt. The whole point of V5Beta was to TEST the software and report bugs not rant and rave how it sux (which it doesn't). Plus it was a BETA that we were using. Move your H/F over, create your themes, test bugs, etc. If a H/F doesn't work and you coded it then LEARN the coding and fix it. If someone else coded it then ask on the dev boards for them to update it (if they haven't already). Therefore, most H/F issues should be resolved in one of these two cases OR by way of the, WAIT!, NEW FEATURES (plugins!). The old adage stands tried and true here "There's more than one way to skin a cat". Thus 99.9% of the things we see and do in V4.5 still exist in V5 and/or are enhanced in some form or fashion. You have to get out of your complacency and live and learn. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made and I trust that the ProBoards staff were wise enough and had integrity when choosing this/that feature to keep/add/remove to V5. So you have to ADAPT. I have and will adapt to all versions PB releases because that's what an admin/owner should do. Stand up in a kind, open-minded facet and work with what you've got.

I'm positive I'll get some who agree and then those who disagree. To each their own.

ProBoards, good job with V5 and keep up the great work!

Andrew

Well said Vu1canF0rce

I'm sure one of the many reasons there is hesitation by some is in fact the fear of the unknown and they are just used to doing what they know rather than try something new and unfamiliar that looks difficult.  Let's face it the reason V4 is pleasing and easy to use is because of the years of learning how to create a board in it.  Well, guess what?  After some time with V5 you can all say the same thing, just give it time.

That said, I have little sympathy for any admin who did not take advantage of BetaZone.  BetaZone is a copy of your site!  You can do whatever you want to it with no fear of mucking up anything on your real site.  Talk about hands-on training!  What more can you ask for?  Maybe it's my advanced years, maybe it's my 26 years of military training, maybe it's my 15 years of post military retirement out in the real world or maybe it's just good ol' common sense that when an opportunity like this appears you need to make the time and just do it.  Pre-planning and preporation seem to be words lost in todays fast pace, gotta have it/do it now world, but Proboards putting up BetaZone has made it easy if you just take the time and use it.  It was one of the smartest things any company anywhere in the world could have done.

Bottom Line: ASK QUESTIONS... lots of folks here have the answers.  It's here, deal with it... Adapt as Andrew said.  Would you rather have Proboards NOT modernize, stay in the stone age of technology and just let everyone around them run them over?  I think not.  They wouldn't be around long if they allowed that to happen.  So, complain all you want, complaining is good, but stop the gripping and just get on with it and learn something new.  This V5 really is a good product... buggy yes, but still a good product for a 1st release.

Now, before you Proboards folks start getting big heads... fix my image upload problems!

Oh, one last thing.  I don't think Shrike url in his profile is his forum, looks like a website to me.  I could be wrong, but I don't list my forum in my profile either, just one of my main websites

[DeltaDart]

Jan 22, 2013 22:16:26 GMT -8 Willing Sniper said:

How do I know when our board will be upgraded?

Did you see the announcement yet on your admin page?

[suchadork]

Jan 22, 2013 18:22:24 GMT -8 JJ said:

Shrike, you don't seem to understand that those of us that are struggling do not want condescention. We definitely do not want to be told how easy it is when we are having problems trying to figure it out. We are frustrated and confused and trying to translate years of learning how to create a board that was pleasing and easy to use at Proboards and basically throwing it out and starting over. Whoopeedo, there are plugins, just go ask for them.  Really? I have followed some of those threads, and guess what, they are still making corrections. Just go add this line to this or that and it should work. Guess what, that also isn't very explanatory and doesn't always work. To denigrate us that are not coders and not acknowledge that having coding experience is a great benefit with the change is not truthful at all.  Coding knowledge does help with the changeover, it helps a lot. 

As for asking for help with a plugin? Excuse me? Proboards and other sites have had excellent codes in their database gathered from all the people asking for them over the years and we were able to do amazing things with our websites, now we are asked to start over and do all that research again and at this stage of the game, cross our fingers and hope we can come close to recreating the look we have achieved... which for me, took years. 

I took a look at the site listed in your Profile, Shrike, I found it pretty plain.  Here is mine...Hootyowl

Trying to recreate that look isn't just a matter of flipping on a lightswitch and making it happen. Please understand, those of us that are upset are exactly that, upset.  We WILL come to grips with this, but it isn't an easy matter for us and we here in this thread are just looking for emotional support, not criticism because we aren't doing cartwheels at all the new bells and whistles... that we can't even figure out.

Edit: I have no idea why my link is acting up, but I am not surprised.

You complain that you don't know your way around codes and then complain when other people make corrections? I took programming (essentially code writing though unfortunately I used Microsoft Visual basic Instead of html lol) and it was always, and probably will always be trial and error. You logically plan what you want done and what sort of code you'd write to make it happen, write it, and then test it. If it looks like it's doing OK the plugin writers put it out. People test it, report back with bugs, and every plugin request thread/index thread that I've seen, the author has not posted a code alteration, instead they've uploded a completely new file that you just install and then copy over your settings using the old cut and paste method. The 'participated' thread even alerts you to when the thread has been updated if you write in it or you can bookmark it and get the same thing in the 'bookmarks' section with a lovely little pop up. It's been very easy updating plugins. i understand that with code that isn't possible, but they're usually very helpful if you take the time to ask them what you're doing wrong. 

When I set up my first beta for V5 it was probably less than a week ago now. First look at the admin panel and my response to a friend was "I'm scared, it's so different!" but at the same time I've loved learning my way around it though am terrified I'll make a mistake (I've been the victim of many a missing admin panel on V4 but on V5 it's not even possible to mess up that monumentally as the headers and footers are separate from the admin panel so you can't lose it which is awesome.) I threw myself in there working my own way around the boards, but you don't have to do that. The staff at Proboards Support are awesome and always willing to help, and almost definitely understand that putting out the new software would be hard for some people, and a walk in the park for others. You don't have to upgrade to V5 until at least the end of 2013 I think (I think Patrick said that earlier) Camille That's a whole year to try finding your way around V5 (you could even gradually change over, maybe allowing your members access to a V5 board of yours that they can just test stuff on or whatever.) and if you're stuck, or your members don't like it, do a poll, see who wants to change and to which provider or whatever. But surely it's worth giving it a bit more of a chance than you have over Beta period? Caution's admin panel looks more complicated and worrying to me than PBV5 and always has.

Sorry if I sounded condescending there, I don't mean to be it's just my view on things.

[Camille]

All good replies Delta Dart and suchadork.

I do not mind adapting, accepting new technologies, upgrading, or whatever else it takes to stay current with the times.  What upsets me is that I don't know how to use the Admin Panel on my Beta Zone test board.  I don't know how to make the adjustments and changes so that it will resemble my v4.5 forum.

I took Shrike's kind advice and was able to backspace out the name of the thread that didn't belong there anymore.  And I truly thank him for that.  So then I check the space and the wording needs to be moved up.  I couldn't find where to do that.  Example of what I mean:


So, now because I don't know how to do that I'll have to read some more here on ProBoards to find the answer, or ask friends to help me, etc.  All of that takes time.  The learning process is hard and time is at a premium.  I am not against upgrades to stay abreast of technology.  I'm against having to stop and get help for every single little aspect of my Beta Zone test board.  Version 4 was not that hard to navigate the Admin Panel.  I was able to do a lot without ever having to ask a question.  But this Version 5 is just maddening trying to figure out how to do things. 

[Dave Smith (greyhoundscene)]

I am a few members short of hitting 10000 members after almost 7 years,in the past i have had people help me regarding codes etc,to be honest i cant even load the colour codes
on myself,i am anticipating a stream of questions from my members,i will not be able to cope timewise,is there anyway the forum can stay as it is?

[Dave Smith (greyhoundscene)]

Jan 12, 2013 15:17:19 GMT -8 Brian said:

Jan 12, 2013 15:09:22 GMT -8 kagamination said:

I'm mostly concerned about the layout coding. I'm not very coding savvy when it comes, but the biggest thing is that on v5 - can we make out forums identical to that of v4's layout? Layout mostly is what's bothering me. The create post page is VERY different, and I find myself really preferring the v4 one over it for some odd reason. Also, style tags and enhanced table tags - will they be available and work on v5? 

Yes. You can make an entire layout similar, if not identical to V4's layout in appearance, as I've evidenced here by recreating the default PBV4 layout's index page.

support.proboards.com/post/5006128/thread

Style tags are built into V5. Bonus points there. Add style="insert css here" to any of your BBCode and you can do a ton of crazy stuff.

If an existing code isn't present in our plugin database, request it and I'm sure someone will attempt to recreate it.

hi patrick,i would like to opt out of version 5 and keep everything as i already have it,where can i find out how to do so?