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Barkley
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avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 7, 2016 12:11:09 GMT -8
The decision has been made and it still protects the interests of 'everyone'. You don't need to remove ' every' post to protect a member. You are only concerned with your own interests, and seemingly not interested in anybody else's, regardless of forum, where as the new ruling considers 'all' parties. Whatever problem you had with the admin in question, it certainly wasn't in every post you made. You have a different type of forum than what Last Hearth is. Yours has to do with news and sports, right? LH is about writing essays about theories. It's intellectual property, and I've got a situation where the Admin is trying to keep essays that I wrote and use them to direct traffic to their site. Meanwhile, since I am banned, I would not be able to comment or clarify meaning or support my argument as new comments are posted. Your situation is a personal matter, but the ruling is a generalised one, and my own forum, or that of millions of others, all fall within the same terms. The ruling has been changed in order to protect the best interests of everybody, including forum admins, and the posts. Once you submit an essay or poem to a forum, you give the admin license to display it as per the terms of Proboards. If you feel so strongly about the essays not being used, why submit them in the first place? Some people share their work on a forum, and gain from the traffic that forum generates, and the feedback the forum community offers, so you can't really post something on the Internet that could potentially be viewed by millions of people and then decide because you've had a fallout that the admin should remove all your posts. We promote articles every week on social media to thousands of fans, but those articles become part of the website once the writer submits them. What if we had 100 writers, and all wanted their work removing? Should we promote their work when it suits them, and when it doesn't, remove that material, in turn creating thousands of dead links, not to mention losing content that we've put work and effort into promoting? I've been banned on forums before, and forums I had thousands of posts on, and it can be unpleasant when you see others posting about it, and can't respond, but that is unfortunate, and if I have a fight in a pub, and I'm barred, others will talk about it in the pub, and I can't be there to give my views. That is the consequences of not fitting in and you must take it on the chin. Don't post unless you are prepared to grant license to your posts.
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Sept 16, 2020 9:33:01 GMT -8
Lady Dyanna
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February 2016
ladydyanna
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Post by Lady Dyanna on Apr 7, 2016 13:11:44 GMT -8
Hi! As Gravy Train has been short on time, I wanted to check back in with you to see if there has been any progress made looking into whether or not the posts of our other users would be able to be recovered? Thanks so much for looking into this for us. It is greatly appreciated! After going over the information pertaining to the deletion I think we have everything we need to begin searching through our logs to return those threads. I can't currently provide an estimate on when this will be finished, but we'll keep in touch. Thank you so much! Yours and the others time and effort is greatly appreciated. I'm glad to have some good news to share with our members!
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 7, 2016 13:39:37 GMT -8
Feather Crystal , we'll still protect your right to keep your personal information private but public conversations that don't reveal your personal information don't fall under that criteria. I'm not sure how deleting the entirety of your post history would immediately dissipate any rumors about plagiarism. The Admin on Last Hearth wants my thread on the Inversion Project restored so they can claim my essay. I'm the person that requested that my posts be deleted, because LH is now trying to claim my work and direct traffic using my content. When I joined LH your previous policy was in place. Had I truly understood what this new policy entails, I would have never joined the site in the first place.Would 'any' policy have made a difference to the circumstances that led to your ban? I doubt more than 10% of members read through Proboards terms and conditions before accepting them, but these terms below haven't changed to my knowledge: The terms and conditions stated that you gave license. www.proboards.com/tos
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Feb 4, 2018 6:08:14 GMT -8
Gravy Train
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July 2015
joannski3
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Post by Gravy Train on Apr 7, 2016 14:28:21 GMT -8
After going over the information pertaining to the deletion I think we have everything we need to begin searching through our logs to return those threads. I can't currently provide an estimate on when this will be finished, but we'll keep in touch. Thanks for your help, Brian, I would've followed up earlier, but I've been stuck at work.
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keats
New Member
Posts: 2
inherit
228291
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Jan 14, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -8
keats
2
January 2016
keats
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Post by keats on Apr 7, 2016 17:14:10 GMT -8
Your situation is a personal matter, but the ruling is a generalised one, and my own forum, or that of millions of others, all fall within the same terms. The ruling has been changed in order to protect the best interests of everybody, including forum admins, and the posts. Once you submit an essay or poem to a forum, you give the admin license to display it as per the terms of Proboards. If you feel so strongly about the essays not being used, why submit them in the first place? Good points, under the new policy. But all situations are personal matters to some extent. And as a general rule, only Admins and forum staff will be represented here on the Support forum. An opportunity for "community feedback" was offered here - but the community notified of this debate was quite one-sided. (i.e., admins, but not users generally) Once again, fantastic arguments for defense of ProBoards' 3 day old policy. But there are ProBoards communities which were established, in part, because ProBoards allowed users to control their own content - as opposed to other platforms which did not. For such communities, this policy change may be a significant issue. Telling someone they need to "take it on the chin," because they no longer "fit in" with the three day old policy you advocated for is not helpful. All that said, a policy change is a policy change. I applaud ProBoards for honoring the intent of requests made prior to this change. I might suggest that a grace period be extended to users - the majority of whom do not have accounts here on the Support forum - during which they can decide how to respond to this change in policy. I might consider, for example, whether my posts on various forums - up to this point - are posts I honestly would have made, had I known I would not have been allowed to remove them at my own discretion. After all - until 3 days ago, it was my understanding that any and all of my posts could be removed, upon request. A reasonable argument could be made that all content posted before April 4th should be subject to the policy publicly acknowledged (and practiced) by ProBoards prior to that time.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:05:53 GMT -8
₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪
Original registration date: 2007. DeviantART: http://deviantart.com/ruanly. Discord: Ruanly#7946.
1,281
July 2015
fajita
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Post by ₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪ on Apr 7, 2016 17:29:03 GMT -8
You can still delete posts, you just can't mass delete them. If you wished you could always individually delete them. Unless you're banned, at which point I suppose you don't have further options available.
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keats
New Member
Posts: 2
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Jan 14, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -8
keats
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keats
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Post by keats on Apr 7, 2016 17:59:48 GMT -8
You can still delete posts... Is that the case on your site? I've participated in forums where this is not an option for members, because plugins have been implemented to prevent it. There are situations - highlighted in new threads all the time, here on Support - in which ownership or administration of a site changes hands. Members who joined and/or contributed under one administration might never have agreed to participate under different ownership - and could have legitimate reasons for wanting to disassociate with that site. Not saying that's the case here - I don't know. But I've been around long enough to know it happens. And implementing a retroactive one-size-fits-all policy doesn't seem to take this into account. I'd hope that ProBoards considers this sort of thing. ProBoards hosts a variety of communities, with an exponentially greater number of members - all of whom have joined for their own reasons, with various levels of understanding as to how much control could be exerted over their own (posted) content. Seems like some kind of announcement and/or grace period would be respectful to the users. Otherwise, perhaps ProBoards should simply issue a blanket statement that any and all posts dated prior to April 4th, 2016 may still be deleted upon member request - since all such posts occurred under a policy that made that recourse available.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:24:29 GMT -8
brownwarrior
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March 2016
brownwarrior
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Post by brownwarrior on Apr 7, 2016 22:54:37 GMT -8
Your situation is a personal matter, but the ruling is a generalised one, and my own forum, or that of millions of others, all fall within the same terms. The ruling has been changed in order to protect the best interests of everybody, including forum admins, and the posts. Not quite everybody. The new policy does not include the best interests of the regular members. Not when administrators have the power to stop their members from choosing what to do with their own posts. As admins on our respective sites we have a great deal of control over user content. We can change it, we can move it, we can delete it and we can use it to promote our sites. We also have supreme control over a members profile, personal information and ultimately if they will remain with our site. There are lots of sites in this community that use a plugin to stop members deleting or editing their posts as well. How much more control do we need? Are we running websites or zoos? Once you submit an essay or poem to a forum, you give the admin license to display it as per the terms of Proboards. If you feel so strongly about the essays not being used, why submit them in the first place? Some people share their work on a forum, and gain from the traffic that forum generates, and the feedback the forum community offers, so you can't really post something on the Internet that could potentially be viewed by millions of people and then decide because you've had a fallout that the admin should remove all your posts. Why not? The posts belong to the person that posted them. It says so in the ToS. Yes, it also says that we as admins have sole discretion over how they are used. But ultimately, those words, photos, or other forms of art are not the property of the administrator of the site. We are licensed to use them, but we do not own them. As owners of our own intellectual properties, I would upon request delete any and all content on my site if a user felt they no longer belonged there. The loss could be small or it could be large, but that should not stop me or ProBoards from keeping the work of others against their wishes. We promote articles every week on social media to thousands of fans, but those articles become part of the website once the writer submits them. What if we had 100 writers, and all wanted their work removing? Should we promote their work when it suits them, and when it doesn't, remove that material, in turn creating thousands of dead links, not to mention losing content that we've put work and effort into promoting? Listen, if you've got a real case of that many members jumping ship on your (or anyone else's) site then you've already got bigger problems. That sort of thing would mean there is a fundamental breakdown in the way the site is being run by the admin and mod staff. That's an internal problem that has to be laid solely at the foot of the staff of a site. Don't get me wrong, there are always people that will be difficult to deal with and are vindictive and will try to hurt a site when they've got it in for them. These are generally the exception to the rule though. If you or any admin here is dealing with members jumping ship and deleting content left, right and center then they should probably ask themselves what they're doing wrong, rather than ask for policy changes to stop groups of people from mass exiting their sites and taking there stuff with them. I've been banned on forums before, and forums I had thousands of posts on, and it can be unpleasant when you see others posting about it, and can't respond, but that is unfortunate, and if I have a fight in a pub, and I'm barred, others will talk about it in the pub, and I can't be there to give my views. That is the consequences of not fitting in and you must take it on the chin. Don't post unless you are prepared to grant license to your posts. Same here. I've left sites and left all content behind, and not given it a second thought. I've also been banned and not cared one bit what was said because I don't look back. I was once, however, forced to appeal to ProBoards to delete my content from a site where the administrator took a hump and decided to threaten me with revealing the content of our personal messages. Had this new policy been in place, what recourse would I have to stop that kind of thing? My IP was banned and I no longer had access to those PMs or any of my posts. How would I stop the admin from publishing the content of those posts if it happened now? This new policy doesn't have an exception clause that protects all members from the destructive actions of despotic administrators. There are always two sides to every story as someone said up thread, and in each situation there will always be a loss of one kind or another. Policies made to protect only us as admins are not the answer. There needs to be a balance between the amount of power we have over someone else's words and at the same time allows us to protect our sites.
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Peabrained Codebreaker
107114
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Mar 11, 2020 7:47:27 GMT -8
Boy_Wonder
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July 2007
natzy24
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Post by Boy_Wonder on Apr 7, 2016 23:11:23 GMT -8
Same here. I've left sites and left all content behind, and not given it a second thought. I've also been banned and not cared one bit what was said because I don't look back. I was once, however, forced to appeal to ProBoards to delete my content from a site where the administrator took a hump and decided to threaten me with revealing the content of our personal messages. Had this new policy been in place, what recourse would I have to stop that kind of thing? My IP was banned and I no longer had access to those PMs or any of my posts. How would I stop the admin from publishing the content of those posts if it happened now? This new policy doesn't have an exception clause that protects all members from the destructive actions of despotic administrators. There are always two sides to every story as someone said up thread, and in each situation there will always be a loss of one kind or another. Policies made to protect only us as admins are not the answer. There needs to be a balance between the amount of power we have over someone else's words and at the same time allows us to protect our sites. I would say personally that your example of personal messages would be considered as "private" content and ergo still deletable.
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187402
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 7, 2016 23:57:42 GMT -8
Your situation is a personal matter, but the ruling is a generalised one, and my own forum, or that of millions of others, all fall within the same terms. The ruling has been changed in order to protect the best interests of everybody, including forum admins, and the posts. Not quite everybody. The new policy does not include the best interests of the regular members. Not when administrators have the power to stop their members from choosing what to do with their own posts. As admins on our respective sites we have a great deal of control over user content. We can change it, we can move it, we can delete it and we can use it to promote our sites. We also have supreme control over a members profile, personal information and ultimately if they will remain with our site. There are lots of sites in this community that use a plugin to stop members deleting or editing their posts as well. How much more control do we need? Are we running websites or zoos? Once you submit an essay or poem to a forum, you give the admin license to display it as per the terms of Proboards. If you feel so strongly about the essays not being used, why submit them in the first place? Some people share their work on a forum, and gain from the traffic that forum generates, and the feedback the forum community offers, so you can't really post something on the Internet that could potentially be viewed by millions of people and then decide because you've had a fallout that the admin should remove all your posts. Why not? The posts belong to the person that posted them. It says so in the ToS. Yes, it also says that we as admins have sole discretion over how they are used. But ultimately, those words, photos, or other forms of art are not the property of the administrator of the site. We are licensed to use them, but we do not own them. As owners of our own intellectual properties, I would upon request delete any and all content on my site if a user felt they no longer belonged there. The loss could be small or it could be large, but that should not stop me or ProBoards from keeping the work of others against their wishes. We promote articles every week on social media to thousands of fans, but those articles become part of the website once the writer submits them. What if we had 100 writers, and all wanted their work removing? Should we promote their work when it suits them, and when it doesn't, remove that material, in turn creating thousands of dead links, not to mention losing content that we've put work and effort into promoting? Listen, if you've got a real case of that many members jumping ship on your (or anyone else's) site then you've already got bigger problems. That sort of thing would mean there is a fundamental breakdown in the way the site is being run by the admin and mod staff. That's an internal problem that has to be laid solely at the foot of the staff of a site. Don't get me wrong, there are always people that will be difficult to deal with and are vindictive and will try to hurt a site when they've got it in for them. These are generally the exception to the rule though. If you or any admin here is dealing with members jumping ship and deleting content left, right and center then they should probably ask themselves what they're doing wrong, rather than ask for policy changes to stop groups of people from mass exiting their sites and taking there stuff with them. I've been banned on forums before, and forums I had thousands of posts on, and it can be unpleasant when you see others posting about it, and can't respond, but that is unfortunate, and if I have a fight in a pub, and I'm barred, others will talk about it in the pub, and I can't be there to give my views. That is the consequences of not fitting in and you must take it on the chin. Don't post unless you are prepared to grant license to your posts. Same here. I've left sites and left all content behind, and not given it a second thought. I've also been banned and not cared one bit what was said because I don't look back. I was once, however, forced to appeal to ProBoards to delete my content from a site where the administrator took a hump and decided to threaten me with revealing the content of our personal messages. Had this new policy been in place, what recourse would I have to stop that kind of thing? My IP was banned and I no longer had access to those PMs or any of my posts. How would I stop the admin from publishing the content of those posts if it happened now? This new policy doesn't have an exception clause that protects all members from the destructive actions of despotic administrators. There are always two sides to every story as someone said up thread, and in each situation there will always be a loss of one kind or another. Policies made to protect only us as admins are not the answer. There needs to be a balance between the amount of power we have over someone else's words and at the same time allows us to protect our sites. I'm not even going to read all that. We've had the discussion in the other thread, and a decision was made. I'm happy with the decision, so certainly not going to have the same debate that led to the decision in the first place with folk that have created new accounts with the purpose of arguing the toss.
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Apr 28, 2016 21:51:45 GMT -8
truetruth
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April 2016
truetruth
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Post by truetruth on Apr 8, 2016 5:27:01 GMT -8
I am extremely happy with this adjustment in policy. It is well-balanced and prevents that whole communities are being damaged by the whims of individual users.
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Feb 4, 2018 6:08:14 GMT -8
Gravy Train
37
July 2015
joannski3
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Post by Gravy Train on Apr 8, 2016 9:03:10 GMT -8
I just want to be clear and remind everyone that in the OP, I was requesting for deletions to be restored of posts that were accidentally deleted in threads started by the user who requested the mass deletion. Some people had posts deleted that did not request for deletions.
If an admin is actually threatening someone to "expose posts or PMs", they should take a screen cap and provide proof and send to the abuse email for Proboards. Not sure how posts could be used against someone if they were already made public, though.
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Feb 15, 2017 12:50:39 GMT -8
Matt
2,940
September 2015
mattyboo1
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Post by Matt on Apr 8, 2016 10:10:44 GMT -8
I am extremely happy with this adjustment in policy. It is well-balanced and prevents that whole communities are being damaged by the whims of individual users. totally agree with you! I don't understand why some people are so upset about the new policy, I personally think the new policy is great!
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Feb 15, 2017 12:50:39 GMT -8
Matt
2,940
September 2015
mattyboo1
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Post by Matt on Apr 8, 2016 10:12:18 GMT -8
Your situation is a personal matter, but the ruling is a generalised one, and my own forum, or that of millions of others, all fall within the same terms. The ruling has been changed in order to protect the best interests of everybody, including forum admins, and the posts. Not quite everybody. The new policy does not include the best interests of the regular members. Not when administrators have the power to stop their members from choosing what to do with their own posts. As admins on our respective sites we have a great deal of control over user content. We can change it, we can move it, we can delete it and we can use it to promote our sites. We also have supreme control over a members profile, personal information and ultimately if they will remain with our site. There are lots of sites in this community that use a plugin to stop members deleting or editing their posts as well. How much more control do we need? Are we running websites or zoos? Once you submit an essay or poem to a forum, you give the admin license to display it as per the terms of Proboards. If you feel so strongly about the essays not being used, why submit them in the first place? Some people share their work on a forum, and gain from the traffic that forum generates, and the feedback the forum community offers, so you can't really post something on the Internet that could potentially be viewed by millions of people and then decide because you've had a fallout that the admin should remove all your posts. Why not? The posts belong to the person that posted them. It says so in the ToS. Yes, it also says that we as admins have sole discretion over how they are used. But ultimately, those words, photos, or other forms of art are not the property of the administrator of the site. We are licensed to use them, but we do not own them. As owners of our own intellectual properties, I would upon request delete any and all content on my site if a user felt they no longer belonged there. The loss could be small or it could be large, but that should not stop me or ProBoards from keeping the work of others against their wishes. We promote articles every week on social media to thousands of fans, but those articles become part of the website once the writer submits them. What if we had 100 writers, and all wanted their work removing? Should we promote their work when it suits them, and when it doesn't, remove that material, in turn creating thousands of dead links, not to mention losing content that we've put work and effort into promoting? Listen, if you've got a real case of that many members jumping ship on your (or anyone else's) site then you've already got bigger problems. That sort of thing would mean there is a fundamental breakdown in the way the site is being run by the admin and mod staff. That's an internal problem that has to be laid solely at the foot of the staff of a site. Don't get me wrong, there are always people that will be difficult to deal with and are vindictive and will try to hurt a site when they've got it in for them. These are generally the exception to the rule though. If you or any admin here is dealing with members jumping ship and deleting content left, right and center then they should probably ask themselves what they're doing wrong, rather than ask for policy changes to stop groups of people from mass exiting their sites and taking there stuff with them. I've been banned on forums before, and forums I had thousands of posts on, and it can be unpleasant when you see others posting about it, and can't respond, but that is unfortunate, and if I have a fight in a pub, and I'm barred, others will talk about it in the pub, and I can't be there to give my views. That is the consequences of not fitting in and you must take it on the chin. Don't post unless you are prepared to grant license to your posts. Same here. I've left sites and left all content behind, and not given it a second thought. I've also been banned and not cared one bit what was said because I don't look back. I was once, however, forced to appeal to ProBoards to delete my content from a site where the administrator took a hump and decided to threaten me with revealing the content of our personal messages. Had this new policy been in place, what recourse would I have to stop that kind of thing? My IP was banned and I no longer had access to those PMs or any of my posts. How would I stop the admin from publishing the content of those posts if it happened now? This new policy doesn't have an exception clause that protects all members from the destructive actions of despotic administrators. There are always two sides to every story as someone said up thread, and in each situation there will always be a loss of one kind or another. Policies made to protect only us as admins are not the answer. There needs to be a balance between the amount of power we have over someone else's words and at the same time allows us to protect our sites. But the previous policy which protected only the members definitely isn't the answer either
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Apr 28, 2016 21:51:45 GMT -8
truetruth
2
April 2016
truetruth
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Post by truetruth on Apr 8, 2016 10:26:08 GMT -8
I am extremely happy with this adjustment in policy. It is well-balanced and prevents that whole communities are being damaged by the whims of individual users. totally agree with you! I don't understand why some people are so upset about the new policy, I personally think the new policy is great! I don´t know myself and I might be wrong, but in the best case we are assisting individual ego tripping, in the worst it is one community trying to knock out another community trying to use the previous policy to that end. Again, I don´t know, it just seems like that. In any case, whatever it is, the Support forum is not the right place to (ab)use for a proxy war. The AdminTeam has enough problems to solve to keep Proboards running. They fixed this particular problem. Beyond that, anybody being butthurt because they don´t understand the Proboard policy on how and what to post should get a life.
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