The 2012 US Presidential Election!

[Inter{n}ational]

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

[Former Member]

Nov 15, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

The problem is the two party system and voter loyalty. Until people actually begin to look at third party candidates, we are going to be in this mess for a while.

[Inter{n}ational]

Nov 15, 2012 13:38:03 GMT -8 Jua? said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

The problem is the two party system and voter loyalty. Until people actually begin to look at third party candidates, we are going to be in this mess for a while.

More than two parties, but regardless - the biggest problem is people are arrogant and vain with their opinions on party and are unwilling to look BEYOND party to the big picture. Take my parents. If they see a Democrat, they automatically assume he or she is a horrible person and will destroy the country, regardless of what they've done or accomplished.

[Former Member]

Nov 15, 2012 13:44:03 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:38:03 GMT -8 Jua? said:

The problem is the two party system and voter loyalty. Until people actually begin to look at third party candidates, we are going to be in this mess for a while.

More than two parties, but regardless - the biggest problem is people are arrogant and vain with their opinions on party and are unwilling to look BEYOND party to the big picture. Take my parents. If they see a Democrat, they automatically assume he or she is a horrible person and will destroy the country, regardless of what they've done or accomplished.

More than two parties? Sure, but only two are in public spotlight. And what you just explained was a result of voter loyalty. People who are solid republicans or democrats are less likely to cooperate with the other side, and you're right, it is a problem.

[Cutthroat Bill]

Nov 15, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

Oh how holier than thou. The Soviets and China and all other dictatorships have it easy. They have one group of people with absolute power and rain down their judgement accordingly. They don't bother with all this "squabbling and hating". People who argue about politics aren't "acting like neanderthals". The whole point of a multi-party system is to argue, to discuss and to compromise to ensure the process is an inclusive one. Ideally you'd have a many party system whose views overlap as much as they differ and a consensus can be found therein, rather than a two party system which forces division out of necessity, but to complain that political bickering is anything but democracy in action is short sighted and wrong.

[RedBassett]

Nov 15, 2012 10:34:37 GMT -8 inabikari said:

16 trillion dollars debt, for one thing.

As I mention in all debt-discussion threads, the debt (amount of money the US owes) has continued to climb, as most things with financial momentum will, but the deficit (the rate at which that debt was climbing) has dropped, meaning that the debt is climbing slower and slower. Obama has reduced the rate that the debt is piling on. When it comes to $16 trillion, that is something noticeable.

I don't agree with Obama on everything, but he understands math a lot better than his primary opposition.

[daniel]

People also tend to gloss over the reality that the bulk of the debt added, some 86% I believe), was due to:

1- the Bush tax cuts.
2- 2 unfunded wars, which also were not accurately counted as "new debt" during the Bush years. Obama put them in the debt category, knowing there would be fallout for simply being honest.
3- lower tax revenue collected caused by a financial recession largely caused by deregulation from Clinton and Bush.

When people talk about the economy they paint it in such dire tones. It baffles me. Sure it's not going gangbusters. But, it is moving in a positive direction and has been for the last three and a half years. We went from being on the edge of a cliff to a slow but steady recovery. Yet, people still want Obama to walk on water.

[Matej]

Nov 15, 2012 16:44:45 GMT -8 daniel said:

People also tend to gloss over the reality that the bulk of the debt added, some 86% I believe), was due to:

1- the Bush tax cuts.
2- 2 unfunded wars, which also were not accurately counted as "new debt" during the Bush years. Obama put them in the debt category, knowing there would be fallout for simply being honest.
3- lower tax revenue collected caused by a financial recession largely caused by deregulation from Clinton and Bush.

When people talk about the economy they paint it in such dire tones. It baffles me. Sure it's not going gangbusters. But, it is moving in a positive direction and has been for the last three and a half years. We went from being on the edge of a cliff to a slow but steady recovery. Yet, people still want Obama to walk on water.

This. Exactly this.

I simply give up on people. Do people really believe such a big debt just happens in 3 and half years?
Do people really think Obama just magically spent that money?
He can't just come up with a bill and have it signed into law... and even when said bill would actually help the deficit (*cough* Obamacare *cough*) people ignore that, want it repealed or the republicans block it, because they don't want to let Obama pass any bills. How could he have possibly be at fault for ALL the debt? You can't change things when the other side is putting a gun next to your head and threatening to pull the trigger if you suggest anything.

I'll give an example (not sure how true it is; if requested, I'll do more research)

www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/04/1127520/-Standing-in-the-way-of-Progress

375 bills that have passed the democratoc majority house, have been blocked by Republicans in the senate.

Some explanations of the bills:
pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2010/10/want-proof-that-the-republican-party-is-against-the-people.html#tp

All of this because Obama introduced Obamacare.
Is this how you run a country? Blocking a majority of suggestions given by the opposing party?
And then you blame it on the people suggesting changes...

[Inter{n}ational]

Nov 15, 2012 15:57:16 GMT -8 Cutthroat Bill said:

Nov 15, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

Oh how holier than thou. The Soviets and China and all other dictatorships have it easy. They have one group of people with absolute power and rain down their judgement accordingly. They don't bother with all this "squabbling and hating". People who argue about politics aren't "acting like neanderthals". The whole point of a multi-party system is to argue, to discuss and to compromise to ensure the process is an inclusive one. Ideally you'd have a many party system whose views overlap as much as they differ and a consensus can be found therein, rather than a two party system which forces division out of necessity, but to complain that political bickering is anything but democracy in action is short sighted and wrong.

I don't recall saying anything about other countries, or ours being greater or worse than any. I can't speak for any other countries, either, because I've never lived there.

I simply stated that our government officials look like fools, the way they bicker in debates rather than actually debate and, though you may disagree, for the past couple of decades, our progress has been limited to technology and the number of dollars we have in circulation.

[🍁🇨🇦 Tai Pan 🇨🇦🍁]

Nov 15, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

In my opinion, the inner political divide is already too great. Look at us. Squabbling and hating between political parties, just like congress, and the rest of the government. Why aren't we getting anything done? Because we're acting like neanderthals warring over our testosterone level, not the good of the people.

This is the single biggest problem in the US. Politicians always say they are for the people but at the end of the day its my party against your party and that knob Majority Republican in Congress is not helping at all and he is one of the major problems with the US today.

[Cutthroat Bill]

Nov 15, 2012 17:42:53 GMT -8 Inter{n}ational said:

Nov 15, 2012 15:57:16 GMT -8 Cutthroat Bill said:

Oh how holier than thou. The Soviets and China and all other dictatorships have it easy. They have one group of people with absolute power and rain down their judgement accordingly. They don't bother with all this "squabbling and hating". People who argue about politics aren't "acting like neanderthals". The whole point of a multi-party system is to argue, to discuss and to compromise to ensure the process is an inclusive one. Ideally you'd have a many party system whose views overlap as much as they differ and a consensus can be found therein, rather than a two party system which forces division out of necessity, but to complain that political bickering is anything but democracy in action is short sighted and wrong.

I don't recall saying anything about other countries, or ours being greater or worse than any.

I think you should re-read what I said.

[Inter{n}ational]

I have, but you lost me.

EDIT: They don't debate as much as they bash each other with ad hominem (spelling?) arguments rather than real evidence and information that hasn't come from modified, biased sources.