What is v5

[Shorty]

Though so.

[Rick Ace]

Is there an option to opt your forum out of Global Login, and force to see e-mail addresses?

[RedBassett]

Aug 3, 2012 5:00:26 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Is there an option to opt your forum out of Global Login, and force to see e-mail addresses?

This is highly unlikely since the login is no longer on the forum, but rather on a central ProBoards site.

[Shrike]

If people want to see their members' email addresses, you could just make it a rule for your forum that they have to fill out a custom profile field with their email. If people don't like giving out their email address, you'll just have to say "well, we could always see it before without your consent" and see how that goes down.

To that end, would it be possible to make custom fields that can be edited by the user but they can choose whether or not to have it publicly displayed (but still be visible to admins)? That way they'd have the same sort of privacy as if they'd had their email address set to hidden in the current version.

With the custom field, that'd also allow people to use a different email to their login one if they wished. And I'm sure someone could probably make a plugin to have be a required field or something along those lines.

Edit: Last idea, is there any possibility of having an "Email this user" option for admins to see on members profiles? That could then send an email in the same way that the email all option does at the moment where you never actually see the individual address.

[Ryan Roos]

Aug 2, 2012 17:14:36 GMT -8 Kylesw555 said:

Can these Custom Registration Fields be made 'required fields'?

I don't see why we can't force extra information out of our members as they can just choose not to register if they wish.

There are no Custom Registration Fields. And that would be against the current TOS.

Aug 2, 2012 17:22:54 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Now we can't see the e-mails of our members? O.o

No. It's a security issue. This is discussed in detail in multiple other threads.

Aug 2, 2012 18:10:09 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

I thought v5 was about more control? I used to be able to e-mail a member if he couldn't login. I'll have to add that to the list of things that can't be done now.

V5 is about more control. That doesn't mean you get to violate a members privacy. You have more control over your forum. The login system isn't part of your forum.

One reason the new login system isn't in the forum, besides security and privacy, is because forum admins used to be able to break the login system (accidentally). Then they got stuck helping members try to login. You no longer have to worry about that. The new login system is fully automated, has password recovery, links to support if they do get stuck, and basically can't be broken by forum codes. So yes we took away all the time you had to spend helping member who couldn't get in. We took that burden away from you.

You refer to this list of things your losing in a lot of your posts. Please PM me this list. Because honestly I feel like we are actually leaving in a lot of obsolete features just for members who want them to be there. We really have put an effort to not take things away in order to respect members wishes. I feel it's a little disrespectful to throw that line at the end of your posts. I would like to see this list and see if we could improve things from it to make the forum experience better.

Aug 2, 2012 18:21:11 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

v5 is suppose to make things private? Do you have an agenda book or moral code, where you base this off?

An e-mail address is a very basic piece of information about users. All forum admins should have access to this information. It's the only thing that gives an account an identity.

Email addresses are commonly considered private information until a person discloses them (like IP addresses now, check out some of the news in Europe and it's spreading to the US). In v5 they are your key for managing many accounts with a single login. Making them even more valuable. That is why they are private. As I explained before a user can provide you an alternate email (or their main one) in a custom field if they wish for you to have it.

All forum admins shouldn't have access to that. Usernames give members a unique identity. It's against the TOS to harvest personal information including emails. I think by your own argument you are trying to say that the email address is the only piece of information that allows you to identify the member in the real world, which by definition is why it is considered private information.

Aug 2, 2012 19:08:02 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

A global login is not equivalent to an e-mail address. Even if you knew someone from a different service, you couldn't detect them via e-mail.

E-mail addresses are identities. It's terrible if main admins can't see it.

Most 'other services' don't use emails as their primary identifier to the public. And most of them use email as a login for their members. We've explained in detail why this is private information.

Pat seemed to answer the rest of your questions through the middle here.

Aug 3, 2012 5:09:40 GMT -8 Shrike said:

To that end, would it be possible to make custom fields that can be edited by the user but they can choose whether or not to have it publicly displayed (but still be visible to admins)?

With the custom field, that'd also allow people to use a different email to their login one if they wished. And I'm sure someone could probably make a plugin to have be a required field or something along those lines.

The custom field itself can have properties set by the admin to be seen by staff only. The user can't control that sorry. (This is an example where we have continued to add new features and give admins even more control over their forum, btw)

As for you second point that's exactly what I've tried to explain. That a user can provide an alternate contact email instead of their login email when using the custom field method in v5.

[Kylesw555]

Aug 2, 2012 18:52:44 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Aug 2, 2012 18:48:43 GMT -8 Shorty said:

You are making a big deal over nothing! Is it really going to inconvenience you so much? If so tell me how?

I am making a big deal? There are others who feel the same as I do. The only thing is that many of them have left.


And yes, it is a major inconvenience. Now, an admin can't contact a member via e-mail. Now, an admin cannot confirm a person's identity via e-mail.

The only reason I'm trying to reason with the Admins here is because they won't release server information making a move very complicated, also I do quite like Proboards but I dealt with other changes and features being taken away but if this one goes ahead then that's one thing too far for me and I will be forced to move before V5.

Aug 2, 2012 19:18:23 GMT -8 VS Admin said:

Aug 2, 2012 18:33:15 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

As for the email situation, as Ryan mentioned the Mass Email page is still in the works -- but I'm sure we can make the ability to email a specific member a function that it supports, so you can still directly contact any member you want.

That's all great but it won't be the same, it won't come from our inbox and you'll cover the E-Mail with Proboards branding and such like that. It won't be an E-Mail from my Forum but an E-Mail from a Proboards Forum. It doesn't really solve anything.

[Ryan Roos]

Aug 3, 2012 9:07:52 GMT -8 Kylesw555 said:

That's all great but it won't be the same, it won't come from our inbox and you'll cover the E-Mail with Proboards branding and such like that. It won't be an E-Mail from my Forum but an E-Mail from a Proboards Forum. It doesn't really solve anything.

How do you know what it's going to be? We don't even know that because we haven't made it yet? Please don't be negative and spread false assumptions.

[Kylesw555]

If it's being sent via Proboards then it's not coming from our own inbox, yes you may allow us to add a 'Reply to' E-Mail Address but it's just not the same.

[Ryan Roos]

Aug 3, 2012 9:18:23 GMT -8 Kylesw555 said:

If it's being sent via Proboards then it's not coming from our own inbox, yes you may allow us to add a 'Reply to' E-Mail Address but it's just not the same.

Again, you seem to know how something that hasn't been created yet works? We haven't said it's going to be any different than v4 at this point. Except we are adding functionality to message groups, staff and maybe individual members. You are making assumptions. We (ProBoards) don't even know how it's going to work. Maybe it will be like you say, maybe it won't. But please stop posting things that nobody knows for sure yet. Lot's of new visitors read the things said here as fact. And then they spread these things back on their forums. They don't always look to see if it's staff who has said so. We haven't made the Mass Email yet in v5, so you can't say how it will or won't work.

[moonbeam]

Aug 2, 2012 19:02:51 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

It's not about winning. I'm just concerned about forum owners. It used to be easy to identify people based on e-mail. And we've lost that feature for a global login, that's not even convincing.

I check every pending account against existing members. But, I check the IP (posts made from it) - not the email. People make up new email addys all the time. The IP check is slightly more reliable.


Also, in terms of mailing a member with password problems, I provide an email address - posted on my newsfader- with directions to email me if they have problems. So I don't "need" their address. They have a choice to come to me, or not.

I don't see why the fuss.

[Rick Ace]

Aug 3, 2012 13:11:44 GMT -8 moonbeam said:

The IP check is slightly more reliable.

Incorrect. Most users find it easier to browse to a proxy than to sign up for a new address. And many use disposable addresses if they mean harm.

However, in my experience, I notice that many people that use proxies don't change their e-mail addresses. And many forum owners overlook that.

[RedBassett]

Aug 3, 2012 13:18:37 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Aug 3, 2012 13:11:44 GMT -8 moonbeam said:

The IP check is slightly more reliable.

Incorrect. Most users find it easier to browse to a proxy than to sign up for a new address. And many use disposable addresses if they mean harm.

However, in my experience, I notice that many people that use proxies don't change their e-mail addresses. And many forum owners overlook that.

If you really want to get into specifics, you can track people even behind proxies

If someone is proxy-ing to hide their identity, I would think you could figure out who they were rather quickly. ProBoards staff have confirmed that they have a number of tools to help avoid problems caused by these sorts of members.

[Rick Ace]

Aug 3, 2012 13:21:30 GMT -8 RedBassett said:

Aug 3, 2012 13:18:37 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Incorrect. Most users find it easier to browse to a proxy than to sign up for a new address. And many use disposable addresses if they mean harm.

However, in my experience, I notice that many people that use proxies don't change their e-mail addresses. And many forum owners overlook that.

If you really want to get into specifics, you can track people even behind proxies

If someone is proxy-ing to hide their identity, I would think you could figure out who they were rather quickly. ProBoards staff have confirmed that they have a number of tools to help avoid problems caused by these sorts of members.

And most of these trackers seem to fail when it comes to online web proxies. We'll have to see what Proboards does.

[Chris]

Aug 3, 2012 13:24:34 GMT -8 Rick Ace said:

Aug 3, 2012 13:21:30 GMT -8 RedBassett said:

If you really want to get into specifics, you can track people even behind proxies

If someone is proxy-ing to hide their identity, I would think you could figure out who they were rather quickly. ProBoards staff have confirmed that they have a number of tools to help avoid problems caused by these sorts of members.

And most of these trackers seem to fail when it comes to online web proxies. We'll have to see what Proboards does.

You can find duplicate accounts by e-mail and/or ip in the new system.

Does that resolve the issue?

[Rick Ace]

Thanks for the attempt Chris.

Unfortunately, as I've said before, it doesn't resolve the issue. But Ryan has told me to drop it, so I'm avoiding talking about this.