inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 11:13:35 GMT -8
VS AdminIs it possible that PB can create a an acceptance tick box upon registration that makes the member give up their right to ownership of forum posts in order to protect forums? As it stands, whole forums can be ruined out of spite by one or two members requesting deletion. In my 15 years of forum use, Proboards is the only forum provider I've come across that allows this to happen. I think it would be a good idea to have an acceptance disclaimer (whatever the right word is) that an admin can insist upon, or refuse that member from posting privileges. Is that possible to implement, and can an admin enforce it themselves in their own forum rules? I've tagged Patrick as I remember there being a discussion on the adminzone so he'll know the score better than most.
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#e61919
1
0
1
Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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Post by VS Admin on Apr 2, 2016 11:30:18 GMT -8
Hi Barkley, Imagine that you had posted something (perhaps personal info, perhaps not) on a forum, but were later blocked from that forum. You might want to have that information you posted removed. Should we honor your request? Should we tell you no? On one hand, we are definitely not required (by law our by our TOS/Privacy Policy) to delete the posts that a person willingly made, and we can definitely see the perspective that the forum owner probably isn't going to be thrilled if we're willing to honor their request. Also, when a user makes a post on the forum they provide us a license to display that content. So we definitely have the right to leave it up (assuming it doesn't violate other laws). On the other hand, we have a person who created these posts, which may or may not contain personal information or other private details, and they have lost their control to click the delete button on the posts. Prior to being blocked/banned from the forum, they had this ability, and now that ability is gone. It's a tough line to find the right side of, to be sure. It's something we have given some thought to, and something we may evolve our position on over time. As of right now, our position is that we feel that respecting the requests of the person who created the content in question to have it removed is the right thing to do. However, we welcome your opinion (and others) on this matter, so that we can ensure that we can best serve all of our customers.
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inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 11:50:49 GMT -8
Hi Barkley , Imagine that you had posted something (perhaps personal info, perhaps not) on a forum, but were later blocked from that forum. You might want to have that information you posted removed. Should we honor your request? Should we tell you no? On one hand, we are definitely not required (by law our by our TOS/Privacy Policy) to delete the posts that a person willingly made, and we can definitely see the perspective that the forum owner probably isn't going to be thrilled if we're willing to honor their request. Also, when a user makes a post on the forum they provide us a license to display that content. So we definitely have the right to leave it up (assuming it doesn't violate other laws). On the other hand, we have a person who created these posts, which may or may not contain personal information or other private details, and they have lost their control to click the delete button on the posts. Prior to being blocked/banned from the forum, they had this ability, and now that ability is gone. It's a tough line to find the right side of, to be sure. It's something we have given some thought to, and something we may evolve our position on over time. As of right now, our position is that we feel that respecting the requests of the person who created the content in question to have it removed is the right thing to do. However, we welcome your opinion (and others) on this matter, so that we can ensure that we can best serve all of our customers. OK, but let me give you a few examples as to why I'm concerned. Our website posts daily news, and documents the entire football season, not just for Everton, but for every league match, in every season. At one point, a large portion of that content was posted by another member who helped the website. Should that member suddenly decide to be difficult, they could request mass deletion of their posts on one of the news accounts, and our website would lose an 'entire year' of documentation in the deletion. There 'must' be protection against this scenario. Common sense applies to personal information, and a single post of personal info (why post it in the first place?) should not be extended to 'mass' deletion upon request. Having a member agree to loss of ownership of content protects forums from malicious removal, and the member can always appeal to Proboards to make a judgement in the event (an unlikely event) that a case where personal information is involved. I'm fairly sure the admin of any PB site will not want thousands of posts deleting from their forum, at the hands of a Proboards Staff member, who can, at their leisure, make that decision, without so much as informing the relevant site admin, or the relevant site admin having a say in it. All content on a forum should belong to the relevant website, even in the case where PB decides to delete a forum, and the admin should be able to back that content up. If content belongs to the poster, could I post on 'this' forum, and have a case for ownership preventing a post from being deleted? We both know that is unlikely, yet ownership is either total, or it isn't ownership, so if we've established that it should be discretionary on here, why should it not be down to discretion 'everywhere'?
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inherit
223470
0
Feb 27, 2019 17:05:53 GMT -8
₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪
Original registration date: 2007. DeviantART: http://deviantart.com/ruanly. Discord: Ruanly#7946.
1,281
July 2015
fajita
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Post by ₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪ on Apr 2, 2016 12:43:56 GMT -8
You could always get a forums.net forum and be in control of such things if it concerns you. I know it's not the solution you want, but it is a current solution you could utilize whereas another solution is not likely to happen.
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inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 13:04:32 GMT -8
You could always get a forums.net forum and be in control of such things if it concerns you. I know it's not the solution you want, but it is a current solution you could utilize whereas another solution is not likely to happen. The guy I'm in conversation with is the owner of Proboards. My forum is a Proboards forum, and Proboards is where I want my forum to be, but thank you.
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#e61919
1
0
1
Sept 28, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -8
VS Admin
20,147
January 2000
admin
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Post by VS Admin on Apr 2, 2016 13:08:29 GMT -8
Hi Barkley , Imagine that you had posted something (perhaps personal info, perhaps not) on a forum, but were later blocked from that forum. You might want to have that information you posted removed. Should we honor your request? Should we tell you no? On one hand, we are definitely not required (by law our by our TOS/Privacy Policy) to delete the posts that a person willingly made, and we can definitely see the perspective that the forum owner probably isn't going to be thrilled if we're willing to honor their request. Also, when a user makes a post on the forum they provide us a license to display that content. So we definitely have the right to leave it up (assuming it doesn't violate other laws). On the other hand, we have a person who created these posts, which may or may not contain personal information or other private details, and they have lost their control to click the delete button on the posts. Prior to being blocked/banned from the forum, they had this ability, and now that ability is gone. It's a tough line to find the right side of, to be sure. It's something we have given some thought to, and something we may evolve our position on over time. As of right now, our position is that we feel that respecting the requests of the person who created the content in question to have it removed is the right thing to do. However, we welcome your opinion (and others) on this matter, so that we can ensure that we can best serve all of our customers. OK, but let me give you a few examples as to why I'm concerned. Our website posts daily news, and documents the entire football season, not just for Everton, but for every league match, in every season. At one point, a large portion of that content was posted by another member who helped the website. Should that member suddenly decide to be difficult, they could request mass deletion of their posts on one of the news accounts, and our website would lose an 'entire year' of documentation in the deletion. There 'must' be protection against this scenario. Common sense applies to personal information, and a single post of personal info (why post it in the first place?) should not be extended to 'mass' deletion upon request. Having a member agree to loss of ownership of content protects forums from malicious removal, and the member can always appeal to Proboards to make a judgement in the event (an unlikely event) that a case where personal information is involved. I'm fairly sure the admin of any PB site will not want thousands of posts deleting from their forum, at the hands of a Proboards Staff member, who can, at their leisure, make that decision, without so much as informing the relevant site admin, or the relevant site admin having a say in it. All content on a forum should belong to the relevant website, even in the case where PB decides to delete a forum, and the admin should be able to back that content up. If content belongs to the poster, could I post on 'this' forum, and have a case for ownership preventing a post from being deleted? We both know that is unlikely, yet ownership is either total, or it isn't ownership, so if we've established that it should be discretionary on here, why should it not be down to discretion 'everywhere'? Thanks for your feedback. A lot of the questions you are asking (e.g. about "ownership") and what not are legal issues as covered in our Terms of Service (I'm not going to go into the legal aspects any more, as I feel my last post covered that). However this main issue at hand isn't a legal issue, it's more of a moral one. One that we are open to community feedback on, and we appreciate your comments. Other members are welcome to chime in as well and let us know what their feelings on the matter are.
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inherit
230510
0
Apr 2, 2016 15:09:50 GMT -8
raptormama
5
April 2016
raptormama
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Post by raptormama on Apr 2, 2016 13:33:54 GMT -8
The deletions being requested today are largely because there was some discussion of changing the privacy settings on our forum. It was decided not to change the settings at this time, but I have zero control over the future decisions of the group after I leave it. I knew that it was possible to do a mass deletion before I deactivated so I decided to do that.
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inherit
209486
0
Mar 6, 2016 15:03:59 GMT -8
T.C.
2,614
May 2014
tacochuck
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Post by T.C. on Apr 2, 2016 13:36:12 GMT -8
I believe that sensitive material should be removed and nothing more. Threads lose their structure once posts that were relevant to the discussion are removed. It's usually an attempt to harm or disrupt the forum by the outgoing user and nothing more.
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inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 13:40:12 GMT -8
OK, but let me give you a few examples as to why I'm concerned. Our website posts daily news, and documents the entire football season, not just for Everton, but for every league match, in every season. At one point, a large portion of that content was posted by another member who helped the website. Should that member suddenly decide to be difficult, they could request mass deletion of their posts on one of the news accounts, and our website would lose an 'entire year' of documentation in the deletion. There 'must' be protection against this scenario. Common sense applies to personal information, and a single post of personal info (why post it in the first place?) should not be extended to 'mass' deletion upon request. Having a member agree to loss of ownership of content protects forums from malicious removal, and the member can always appeal to Proboards to make a judgement in the event (an unlikely event) that a case where personal information is involved. I'm fairly sure the admin of any PB site will not want thousands of posts deleting from their forum, at the hands of a Proboards Staff member, who can, at their leisure, make that decision, without so much as informing the relevant site admin, or the relevant site admin having a say in it. All content on a forum should belong to the relevant website, even in the case where PB decides to delete a forum, and the admin should be able to back that content up. If content belongs to the poster, could I post on 'this' forum, and have a case for ownership preventing a post from being deleted? We both know that is unlikely, yet ownership is either total, or it isn't ownership, so if we've established that it should be discretionary on here, why should it not be down to discretion 'everywhere'? Thanks for your feedback. A lot of the questions you are asking (e.g. about "ownership") and what not are legal issues as covered in our Terms of Service (I'm not going to go into the legal aspects any more, as I feel my last post covered that). However this main issue at hand isn't a legal issue, it's more of a moral one. One that we are open to community feedback on, and we appreciate your comments. Other members are welcome to chime in as well and let us know what their feelings on the matter are. Exactly. This is why I asked the question. Too many people are scared to ask questions as they see them as criticising where as I see most questions as being constructive, and I feel the issue on post ownership is one that 'must' have the best interests of a forum in mind. Can you imagine if in 5 years time a member suddenly decided they wanted to have their posts deleted after a dispute? I've had members leave to start their own forums in the past, both on this forum, and forums I've co-owned in the past, and become direct rivals, and I'm sure sometimes members step out of line, and are banned by various websites, who would like to be secure in the knowledge that the banned member can't then ask Proboards to delete their posts. I feel an appeal process should be available to members if certain posts need to be removed on grounds of morality, and an admin isn't behaving responsibly, but the member has a responsibility to safeguard their own interests also. I allow deletion on my forum, but it would be good to have a safeguard in the software that prevents anybody from going on a 'deletion' spree. People can have meltdowns, and be self destructive, and these safeguards protect them as well as restrict them, as often the following day the member feels very differently, yet the damage can already be done. If that damage is on a mass scale, it can be devastating for any forum.
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inherit
218076
0
May 9, 2017 6:59:00 GMT -8
nariadreaming
877
January 2015
nariadreaming
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Post by nariadreaming on Apr 2, 2016 13:43:46 GMT -8
You could always get a forums.net forum and be in control of such things if it concerns you. I know it's not the solution you want, but it is a current solution you could utilize whereas another solution is not likely to happen. The guy I'm in conversation with is the owner of Proboards. My forum is a Proboards forum, and Proboards is where I want my forum to be, but thank you. So you're aware, Patrick also owns forums.net, which is why it was suggested. I've had members with 20,000+ posts delete. sure, information is lost, but it by no means destroys the site.
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inherit
224902
0
Feb 15, 2017 12:50:39 GMT -8
Matt
2,940
September 2015
mattyboo1
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Post by Matt on Apr 2, 2016 13:54:49 GMT -8
I have an opinion on both sides here, I do believe a user should have a right to remove personal information, however I agree that it can be devastating to a forum to suddenly lose so many posts, I really agree with the admin not even being notified of a post removal, for example if someone requests their posts deleted, I believe it should at least be brought to the admins attention so the admin can remove specific posts that need to be removed, threads are severely damaged when there is a mass post removal and if that person has a significant amount of posts it really can set a forum back, i think what the admin wants needs to be taken into consideration too with this.
However I do understand a users want to have their posts removed, I've asked for my posts removed on forums before, but I think both sides need to be looked at in regards to this issue.
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inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 14:09:18 GMT -8
The guy I'm in conversation with is the owner of Proboards. My forum is a Proboards forum, and Proboards is where I want my forum to be, but thank you. So you're aware, Patrick also owns forums.net, which is why it was suggested. I've had members with 20,000+ posts delete. sure, information is lost, but it by no means destroys the site. I'm very aware who Patrick is, thank you. Perhaps you saw "Senior Member" in my profile and mistook it for "Just arrived yesterday". The same goes for Forums.net. You're not grasping an important point, and that is that the conversation is in regards to protecting what we have as Proboards admins, not leaving our forums behind, to start somewhere else. I think anybody that says "Use Forums.net" on a Proboards Admin forum should be tarred and feathered.
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inherit
187476
0
May 18, 2020 16:00:31 GMT -8
Star's Legacy
1,019
December 2012
starshinelegacy
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Post by Star's Legacy on Apr 2, 2016 14:25:58 GMT -8
I think anybody that says "Use Forums.net" on a Proboards Admin forum should be tarred and feathered. You don't have to be rude to someone offering potentially helpful advice. You presented your issues and concerns and they presented a possible solution to your problem.
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inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 2, 2016 14:31:49 GMT -8
I think anybody that says "Use Forums.net" on a Proboards Admin forum should be tarred and feathered. You don't have to be rude to someone offering potentially helpful advice. You presented your issues and concerns and they presented a possible solution to your problem. I'm not being rude at all. I find the fact that you are insinuating that I am offensive.
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inherit
223470
0
Feb 27, 2019 17:05:53 GMT -8
₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪
Original registration date: 2007. DeviantART: http://deviantart.com/ruanly. Discord: Ruanly#7946.
1,281
July 2015
fajita
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Post by ₪» ⅀ ƪ Ƒ «₪ on Apr 2, 2016 14:34:02 GMT -8
How.. is that.. not rude? lol
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