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Brian
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smashmaster3
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Post by Brian on Apr 3, 2016 9:58:53 GMT -8
Any deletions performed by us using the Forum Cleanup tool are done with the Threads Started checkbox unchecked so that the threads themselves remain and posts made by other users are left intact. Only posts authored by the user requesting the deletion should be deleted. Then I'm even more confused now how something like this (entire threads being deleted, including other members posts) could have and did, in fact, occur. Can the user themselves request deletion of all of the threads that they started? Is this a request that would be granted? If not, why did this happen to our site? And if it was a system glitch or user error, why were we not offered any type of backup to restore the posts that should not have been deleted? I wouldn't know without seeing the case in question. Did you contact us about it shortly after it happened? We can't restore content if we don't know it's missing to begin with, and the longer that content is gone the harder it is to retrieve.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Apr 3, 2016 10:03:06 GMT -8
Thanks for your suggestion, but that has already been done. I sent a message to the admin that responded to the deletion request shortly after the threads disappeared. I received an apology for the inconvenience, but was told that there was nothing that could be done to help at the time. Gosh I am so sorry :/ I can only imagine what it must be like to lose all that info. You have my heartfelt sympathies. @ staff, there was a point in time when rollbacks were considered for a paid option, is this still something that's in the works? it seems what happened to Lady Dyanna might be a good scenario where such an option would be useful. Not until a tool is created that does this automatically. The methods required to restore content manually are incredibly time-consuming, which is why we stopped offering them even as a paid option. It was getting to a point where it was interfering with our ability to progress on projects we were meant to be focusing on. As mentioned in other threads where this has been brought up this wouldn't be able to work retroactively. Only content created after its introduction would be able to be restored.
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Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
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Kami
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kamiyakaoru
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 10:08:16 GMT -8
Gosh I am so sorry :/ I can only imagine what it must be like to lose all that info. You have my heartfelt sympathies. @ staff, there was a point in time when rollbacks were considered for a paid option, is this still something that's in the works? it seems what happened to Lady Dyanna might be a good scenario where such an option would be useful. Not until a tool is created that does this automatically. The methods required to restore content manually are incredibly time-consuming, which is why we stopped offering them even as a paid option. It was getting to a point where it was interfering with our ability to progress on projects we were meant to be focusing on. As mentioned in other threads where this has been brought up this wouldn't be able to work retroactively. Only content created after its introduction would be able to be restored. I figured it wouldn't be retroactive, but I was thinking in case this happened in the future in another instance. I can understand the limitations though and how time consuming it would be without an automated system.
I don't really have anything else to add w/ this, and I don't know how to finish this post so uh. Yosh.
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Post by Lady Dyanna on Apr 3, 2016 10:13:45 GMT -8
Then I'm even more confused now how something like this (entire threads being deleted, including other members posts) could have and did, in fact, occur. Can the user themselves request deletion of all of the threads that they started? Is this a request that would be granted? If not, why did this happen to our site? And if it was a system glitch or user error, why were we not offered any type of backup to restore the posts that should not have been deleted? I wouldn't know without seeing the case in question. Did you contact us about it shortly after it happened? We can't restore content if we don't know it's missing to begin with, and the longer that content is gone the harder it is to retrieve. Yes. I sent a PM to the admin that had responded to our former member's deletion request. Unfortunately, he was limited to the amount of information that he could share with me, as part of the conversation surrounding the deletions occurred in PM with this person
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Barkley
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 11:01:05 GMT -8
The thing that interests me most about this is that apparently Forums.net 'don't' allow the member to delete their posts, which if true, suggests that it isn't law, or an issue of morality, but an issue of payment.
That in itself is enough for me to feel it should be extended to Proboards.
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Apr 3, 2016 11:12:04 GMT -8
The thing that interests me most about this is that apparently Forums.net 'don't' allow the member to delete their posts, which if true, suggests that it isn't law, or an issue of morality, but an issue of payment. That in itself is enough for me to feel it should be extended to Proboards. Users can still delete their posts on Forums.net forums. The major difference between content posted on both services is that you own the content on Forums.net. We don't fulfill post deletion requests on Forums.net because the content of the forum's database is the property of the admin.
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 11:52:27 GMT -8
The thing that interests me most about this is that apparently Forums.net 'don't' allow the member to delete their posts, which if true, suggests that it isn't law, or an issue of morality, but an issue of payment. That in itself is enough for me to feel it should be extended to Proboards. Users can still delete their posts on Forums.net forums. The major difference between content posted on both services is that you own the content on Forums.net. We don't fulfill post deletion requests on Forums.net because the content of the forum's database is the property of the admin. If I asked for every one of my posts to be deleted on here would you delete them Brian? Seriously though, joking aside, are Proboards going to consider changing their policy on mass forum post deletion and start protecting the efforts of their administrators?
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Apr 3, 2016 11:55:10 GMT -8
Users can still delete their posts on Forums.net forums. The major difference between content posted on both services is that you own the content on Forums.net. We don't fulfill post deletion requests on Forums.net because the content of the forum's database is the property of the admin. If I asked for every one of my posts to be deleted on here would you delete them Brian? Seriously though, joking aside, are Proboards going to consider changing their policy on mass forum post deletion and start protecting the efforts of their administrators? Sure, per the current policy. Any policy changes would be up to VS Admin. I only enforce those policies.
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 12:00:30 GMT -8
If I asked for every one of my posts to be deleted on here would you delete them Brian? Seriously though, joking aside, are Proboards going to consider changing their policy on mass forum post deletion and start protecting the efforts of their administrators? Sure, per the current policy. Any policy changes would be up to VS Admin . I only enforce those policies. Let's see if we can't convince Patrick to re-consider then. Does he smoke a certain cigar?
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Post by whitewolfstark on Apr 3, 2016 12:05:48 GMT -8
As another Moderator at the same forum that ladydi runs, I would like to back up that these deletes did occur and that we were unaware of its occurrence until one of our forum members was checking back in her own older posts in an attempt to cite a source she'd made in those older posts, only to find that her post was gone and that the thread it had been in was likewise deleted. We were unsure of what had happened until coming here to Support where we found a thread where the former member of our forum had requested a mass deletion, and had been responded to by staff. From there Lady Dyanna reached out to the staff member and asked if something could be done about the deleted posts and threads that had been started by that member but not made up entirely of her posts. Lady Dyanna was told that there wasn't anything that could be done to retrieve the missing posts (this was within 24 - 48 hours of the deletion) and that a review was being proposed on policy was being considered due to the unintentional deletion action. I was curious as to how that review of policy was going, for as T.C. on page two of this thread quoted from the Terms of Service: The action of mass deletion without at least notification to the forum administrators and moderators is in contradiction to the above stated Terms of Service.
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 12:35:01 GMT -8
There must be about 4 separate requests on here in the last 24 hours from users of 'one' forum all requesting that their posts are deleted, and within minutes they get a response from staff that their request has been granted. I find that very concerning as a Proboards admin that the same thing could happen to any website. Now it's not my business 'why' they are requesting deletion as not my forum, but I'm at liberty to suggest that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there, with an agenda, as no way would that amount of members act on their own accord without prompt. Also, I find on this admin forum that often members from the same forum support each other in matters that are relating to Proboards admins, and think that each forum should only be allowed one voice / one vote on here, as it is an admin support forum, and not a "Bring your mates to back your opinion up" forum.
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Post by blitzen on Apr 3, 2016 12:38:52 GMT -8
We do not own their words, their photographs, their intellectual property. They belong to the member alone.
And thankfully, we have a host that does allow an admin the freedom to own the content, but that freedom comes with a price, as it should. Paying to own someone else's forum posts just causes all sorts of problems with copyright laws especially if the content of the post is art/poetry/etc. Saying "oh, you'll have to part with 50$/month (and that's for the lowest package) just for the privilege of not having members go AWOL on you and disrupting the forum" is downright wrong. And if they've still got that awful 6 month clause then that's 300$ siphoned from desperate admins. Most couldn't even afford the 50$/month let alone 300$! To say to a admin of a small forum that they should go and join forums.net is absurd. Even some of the bigger forums wouldn't be able to afford it without some sort of donation drive - and there's no guarantee in that working either. I have seen mass deletions on various forums I've been on and it disrupts thread flow. The same thing happens with members who delete themselves - it makes the forum look bad. Not many other forum providers provide these features so why does proboards? To me it seems like they're just trying to encourage people to fork out for high priced privileges. I wholeheartedly agree with everything the OP has said in the opening post.
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Post by Gravy Train on Apr 3, 2016 12:44:50 GMT -8
There must be about 4 separate requests on here in the last 24 hours from users of 'one' forum all requesting that their posts are deleted, and within minutes they get a response from staff that their request has been granted. I find that very concerning as a Proboards admin that the same thing could happen to any website. Now it's not my business 'why' they are requesting deletion as not my forum, but I'm at liberty to suggest that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there, with an agenda, as no way would that amount of members act on their own accord without prompt. Also, I find on this admin forum that often members from the same forum support each other in matters that are relating to Proboards admins, and think that each forum should only be allowed one voice / one vote on here, as it is an admin support forum, and not a "Bring your mates to back your opinion up" forum. That's my fault, I'm the site owner and have been working & unable to participate. Two members of my mod team posted on here, the second just left the one post you are quoting, I think? This is my user name but I can't login right now if you or the other admins need to verify. I had another point to add, but I can relay it to ladydi if you prefer she continue to communicate by proxy. Both she & WWS are admins, but technically it's my castle. Apologies, they've been helping out a lot with the heavy lifting because I've had other stuff going on the last few weeks.
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Post by blitzen on Apr 3, 2016 12:46:29 GMT -8
I don't think many members will choose to join a forum where they and their contributions are held hostage.
Then why would anyone join a forums.net forum then?
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Kami
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Posts: 40,064
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Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
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kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 12:49:17 GMT -8
I don't think many members will choose to join a forum where they and their contributions are held hostage.
Then why would anyone join a forums.net forum then? I don't think that's the point. The point was that if people did this on the forums.net service, ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ doesn't believe people will join. But this is not an inherent qualification to joining a forums.net forum, so what ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ is saying is that if an admin decided to implement this, they don't believe people will join that specific forum, not forums.net forums as a whole / forums.net forums that do not have any such restrictions. I hope that made sense.
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