inherit
224450
0
Feb 7, 2017 11:46:28 GMT -8
blitzen
236
August 2015
blitzen
|
Post by blitzen on Apr 3, 2016 13:04:18 GMT -8
Then why would anyone join a forums.net forum then? I don't think that's the point. The point was that if people did this on the forums.net service, ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ doesn't believe people will join. But this is not an inherent qualification to joining a forums.net forum, so what ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ is saying is that if an admin decided to implement this, they don't believe people will join that specific forum, not forums.net forums as a whole / forums.net forums that do not have any such restrictions. I hope that made sense. If admin owns your posts on forums.net they by rights could do what Luv claimed. By joining a forums.net forum you agree that your content is now owned by the forum administrator. Something that Luv thinks would put people off if it were implemented on proboards.com. It may not be her point but it's something that is certainly at odds with her promoting forums.net.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 13:18:00 GMT -8
Forums.net is geared to a different type of clientele. From what I've read here on Support, it's one reason many forums did not change over, despite the lifting of the PG13 guideline. And why many that did, returned to the free version. It's one of the reasons why ProBoards' no longer offers the option of exporting the content from the free version to the paid version because the audience is different and there were few initial "takers" when the option was available.
And from what I understand, Forums.net does allow a member to delete their posts.
The only difference being the ProBoards' staff wouldn't interfere and perform the deletion for a member since ProBoards doesn't own the content, the forum admin does.
On the free version, ProBoards' does own the content so they will offer members that service.
There are far more members than there are admins on ProBoards. As admins, we need to make our forums as welcoming as possible. We have threads here where admins lament the lack of good quality, active, posting members. They ask for suggestions, comments, information on how to attract them.
So with so many forums available to members, it's a tough sell to get those members to join your board. And a disclaimer that a perspective member would be in essence "donating at no charge" their contributions to keep YOUR forum alive and active and foregoing their ownership right to delete their contributions, would be a turnoff to many perspective members ~ when so many other forums will not be making such demands.
I am not adverse to having the option, but I would certainly want it to be an option only ~ and not something across the board because I do feel it will limit a forum's appeal to perspective members. I've seen posts here where members feel forums who must approve new members are a turn off. So it's very hard to see this new twist being welcomed.
|
|
inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
|
Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 14:18:21 GMT -8
Then why would anyone join a forums.net forum then? I don't think that's the point. The point was that if people did this on the forums.net service, ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ doesn't believe people will join. But this is not an inherent qualification to joining a forums.net forum, so what ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ is saying is that if an admin decided to implement this, they don't believe people will join that specific forum, not forums.net forums as a whole / forums.net forums that do not have any such restrictions. I hope that made sense. I wonder what kind of padded rose petal world some folk live in sometimes. The real world exists, and in the real world, you can't ask somebody erase your history. Proboards is the biggest 'FREE' forum provider, but there are some very large forum providers out there, none of which seem to have a problem with registrations, and they don't allow mass post deletion. MOST will allow you to deactivate your account, but your posts remain. I think Luv is a charming person, but on this occasion I think her opinion is flawed. If anything deterred people from joining forums.net it would be the astronomical prices the company asks for, (BUT this is about PB not F.net) as most admins have never once considered that posts CAN be deleted, and you can guarantee that if admins haven't considered it, then not a chance in this universe will the majority of members ever consider it. I've been posting on the Internet on lots of forums for what seems like an eternity, and edited forums on and off, and NEVER thought twice about this scenario, as THIS is the first time I heard of it, and it shocked me. I can't think of many reasons why somebody would want to remove their entire post history on a forum, other than a meltdown in mental health, or to attempt to delete things they wish they hadn't said, which is why nobody forces anybody to press submit. We all post things we wish we hadn't sometimes, and all need a bit of leeway, but an entire post history being removed is nothing short of deliberate manipulation of a loophole provided by PB, and does not consider the best interests of the forum, or it's members, or it's readers.
|
|
inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
|
Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 14:27:41 GMT -8
ALSO, and this isn't as funny as you might think, as it happens all the time .............
What happens if a member dies? What if their relatives suddenly decide they don't like the fact that their grandfather or daughter used to post on Forum X ?
And as for large forums saying that one member leaving does not harm their forum, well what if 20 members ask for deletion, or perhaps 100 members?
|
|
Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
#f35f71
156500
0
Offline
Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
40,064
July 2010
kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
|
Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 14:36:28 GMT -8
For whatever it's worth I was just trying to explain what I thought their point of view was, not that I necessarily agreed with it. I think if you read back over the thread I'm very much in support of giving administrators some form of control of what can and cannot be deleted.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 14:40:52 GMT -8
What happens if a member dies? What if their relatives suddenly decide they don't like the fact that their grandfather or daughter used to post on Forum X ? And as for large forums saying that one member leaving does not harm their forum, well what if 20 members ask for deletion, or perhaps 100 members? I think that's over-reaching.
In v4, we noticed our forum was getting sluggish and it never occurred to me to come to support! I joined when v5 came about. So we figured if we dumped posts, we might run better. So we mass deleted over 100,000. It wasn't a big deal.
If someone had a house and they were lonely and they asked people to keep them company AND bring their own furniture to help "decorate" the place, would you expect the furniture to stay when that person left? Sure, your house will look empty and incomplete, but that's what happens when you ask someone to help with something you own.
|
|
inherit
209128
0
Sept 27, 2020 22:23:19 GMT -8
ladydawn
257
May 2014
ladydawn
|
Post by ladydawn on Apr 3, 2016 14:50:52 GMT -8
What happens if a member dies? What if their relatives suddenly decide they don't like the fact that their grandfather or daughter used to post on Forum X ? And as for large forums saying that one member leaving does not harm their forum, well what if 20 members ask for deletion, or perhaps 100 members? I think that's over-reaching.
In v4, we noticed our forum was getting sluggish and it never occurred to me to come to support! I joined when v5 came about. So we figured if we dumped posts, we might run better. So we mass deleted over 100,000. It wasn't a big deal.
If someone had a house and they were lonely and they asked people to keep them company AND bring their own furniture to help "decorate" the place, would you expect the furniture to stay when that person left? Sure, your house will look empty and incomplete, but that's what happens when you ask someone to help with something you own. That really is a very poor comparison. Sorry. I think it should be the admin of that forum to be able to decide on mass deleting. Perhaps people should think twice what they are posting before clicking the send button.
|
|
inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
|
Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 14:54:28 GMT -8
What happens if a member dies? What if their relatives suddenly decide they don't like the fact that their grandfather or daughter used to post on Forum X ? And as for large forums saying that one member leaving does not harm their forum, well what if 20 members ask for deletion, or perhaps 100 members? I think that's over-reaching.
In v4, we noticed our forum was getting sluggish and it never occurred to me to come to support! I joined when v5 came about. So we figured if we dumped posts, we might run better. So we mass deleted over 100,000. It wasn't a big deal.
If someone had a house and they were lonely and they asked people to keep them company AND bring their own furniture to help "decorate" the place, would you expect the furniture to stay when that person left? Sure, your house will look empty and incomplete, but that's what happens when you ask someone to help with something you own. That's just bizarre. I love you though haha
|
|
inherit
209486
0
Mar 6, 2016 15:03:59 GMT -8
T.C.
2,614
May 2014
tacochuck
|
Post by T.C. on Apr 3, 2016 14:58:31 GMT -8
We do not own their words, their photographs, their intellectual property. They belong to the member alone.
And thankfully, we have a host that does allow an admin the freedom to own the content, but that freedom comes with a price, as it should. Paying to own someone else's forum posts just causes all sorts of problems with copyright laws especially if the content of the post is art/poetry/etc. Saying "oh, you'll have to part with 50$/month (and that's for the lowest package) just for the privilege of not having members go AWOL on you and disrupting the forum" is downright wrong. And if they've still got that awful 6 month clause then that's 300$ siphoned from desperate admins.
Most couldn't even afford the 50$/month let alone 300$!To say to a admin of a small forum that they should go and join forums.net is absurd. Even some of the bigger forums wouldn't be able to afford it without some sort of donation drive - and there's no guarantee in that working either.I have seen mass deletions on various forums I've been on and it disrupts thread flow. The same thing happens with members who delete themselves - it makes the forum look bad. Not many other forum providers provide these features so why does proboards? To me it seems like they're just trying to encourage people to fork out for high priced privileges. I wholeheartedly agree with everything the OP has said in the opening post. Unless you got in while the getting was good and transferred to FDN for 9.99 a month and can remain there at 9.99 a month as i did.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 14:59:53 GMT -8
That really is a very poor comparison. Sorry.
The analogy fits.
A forum is a home and you are asking for someone to "decorate" that home and leave their hard work for your benefit should they decide to leave or if they are asked to leave through a ban.
Most folks will choose to stay in a home where they can take their property with them when they leave.
We agree to ProBoards' TOS when we create a forum, and that's the TOS as it stands.
Again, I'm not opposed to an option. But I would want the option to be an option and not shown on every forum.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 15:04:14 GMT -8
That's just bizarre. I love you though haha Lol, me, too, Barkley!
Differences of opinions are natural, but making things personal shouldn't be.
It's about the issue, not the person.
|
|
inherit
187402
0
Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
|
Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 15:17:45 GMT -8
That's just bizarre. I love you though haha Lol, me, too, Barkley !
Differences of opinions are natural, but making things personal shouldn't be.
It's about the issue, not the person.
Exactly. I'm always getting called rude, but it's because I'm honest in thought and tend to skip diplomacy (not always intentionally) to get to the point which rubs a few up the wrong way, but if I were wanting to be rude I'd make it obvious. We all live in different environments, and what is the standard in one changes in another. Hell, I run a football forum and have a swear filter. I can't be all bad ha ha.
|
|
Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
#f35f71
156500
0
Offline
Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
40,064
July 2010
kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
|
Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 15:28:33 GMT -8
i think the issue with the house analogy is that it's not like you've asked someone for help to put stuff in your house, it's more like you've asked a group of people to collaborate on a foundation and if someone decides to take out the parts they've worked on the foundation gets a bit wobbly indeed.
Sure you can patch it up and rebuild but it will take a lot of time, effort, and may require to tear stuff down before building up again; the problem is forums that rely on member contributions to make a cohesive forum structure, such as a role play or other forum wherein members contribute information vital to how the forum operates, is that the restructure after the deletion of posts can and does result in lulls in activity and sometimes forum death (so to speak).
If even a half dozen members on my RP forum decided to delete all of their posts, including the ones that contributed to the story, it would be the end of the plot line as the forum knows it. Sure, we can attempt to recreate it or go in a new direction but in the mean time people can no longer participate at the same level as they did before.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 15:33:04 GMT -8
I respect that, Barkley , and understand completely.
I always like a good debate/discussion. It's what forums are all about.
It's when posts sink to the personal level where things deteriorate.
We may not always succeed in conveying our thoughts the way we are seeing them in our minds, but we do our best.
We may "miss the mark" at times, but it's not intentional.
|
|
inherit
(?)?
188910
0
Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
|
Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 15:42:46 GMT -8
Hi Kami ~
I understand (and sympathize) where you're coming from (about my analogy) and I do think RPG forums need more continuity than many other forum types. They are intricate works of art. I'm always amazed at the talent presented, both in the forum's design and the written contributions.
But it does become a fine line of legality because as you know, even if a formal copyright is not seeked, the intellectual property does belong to the creator of that property ~ whether it be in the written forum, in a photo, or a piece of artwork.
And yes, as an admin, you would hope to nourish a community where no one leaves and takes their intellectual property along with them.
But ultimately, it is their intellectual property.
And unless they do agree to divest themselves of their inherent copyright ownership when joining a forum, I just don't see how anyone's contributions can be owned by an admin. And I just don't see too many "artists" no matter the genre, divesting themselves of that right.
|
|