inherit
187402
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 15:55:22 GMT -8
i think the issue with the house analogy is that it's not like you've asked someone for help to put stuff in your house, it's more like you've asked a group of people to collaborate on a foundation and if someone decides to take out the parts they've worked on the foundation gets a bit wobbly indeed.
Sure you can patch it up and rebuild but it will take a lot of time, effort, and may require to tear stuff down before building up again; the problem is forums that rely on member contributions to make a cohesive forum structure, such as a role play or other forum wherein members contribute information vital to how the forum operates, is that the restructure after the deletion of posts can and does result in lulls in activity and sometimes forum death (so to speak).
If even a half dozen members on my RP forum decided to delete all of their posts, including the ones that contributed to the story, it would be the end of the plot line as the forum knows it. Sure, we can attempt to recreate it or go in a new direction but in the mean time people can no longer participate at the same level as they did before.
Dictionary : Contribute - give in order to help achieve or provide something. We can argue whether folk contribute, but let me give a scenario: I am currently admin. I could give the forum to somebody else, and a few years down the line get a bee in my bonnet. I have an enormous amount of posts, both in a personal format, and also in a news article format. If I removed my own posts, there would be little left of the forum, such would the impact be. I probably account for 10% of our 30+ thousand threads, so how is that not harmful? Then what about the custom pages, or the coding that is all part of my time spent. It's utterly nonsensical. I could say the same for about a dozen other members, or a select few who've held responsibility. We could lose entire leagues, competitions, historical images, results, text, polls, etc etc that would be irreplaceable, especially given that our site is not just about discussion, but discussions based upon events that take place on a weekly basis, often twice weekly. Forums have a timeline, and a well managed forum flows beautifully, but take away important contributions and you might as well close.
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Kami
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 15:56:02 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥As a freelancing artist by trade i fully understand and respect the parameters of intellectual property, and I definitely understand the legal ramifications. I am not suggesting that users be unable to remove their posts ever, but it would be beneficial to a degree if administrators for forums with more intricately woven forum structures could have a larger measure of control over what can get deleted or the manner in which its deleted or something to that effect. There has to be, I feel, a way to compromise. I don't have any solutions that can easily be implemented, but I think -- especially considering just how many RP forums and other such member information- reliant sites there are -- that it's a topic that needs to be discussed so that sites won't fall apart if members decide to delete their posts with no warning. We don't want to *own* anyone's posts, we just want to make sure that the foundation we built doesn't crumble beneath our feet.
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Kami
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 15:57:07 GMT -8
Barkley I can't tell if you're quoting me to agree or argue :x
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inherit
187402
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 16:02:36 GMT -8
Barkley I can't tell if you're quoting me to agree or argue :x I never argue. I'm always right. It's just a matter of to what degree. I'm normally pretty blunt though, so you might want to link me to the quote you refer to, unless you're talking about my stance here, in which case I'm 100% against mass deletion, and will haunt VS Admin in the afterlife if he doesn't change the policy.
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Kami
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Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 16:03:59 GMT -8
Barkley I can't tell if you're quoting me to agree or argue :x I never argue. I'm always right. It's just a matter of to what degree. :D I'm normally pretty blunt though, so you might want to link me to the quote you refer to, unless you're talking about my stance here, in which case I'm 100% against mass deletion, and will haunt VS Admin in the afterlife if he doesn't change the policy. you just quoted me about my analogy of the post deletions being like a crumbling foundations, and defined the word contribution in your post (sorry I'm on mobile, kind of a pain to link things)
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inherit
187402
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 16:07:25 GMT -8
I never argue. I'm always right. It's just a matter of to what degree. I'm normally pretty blunt though, so you might want to link me to the quote you refer to, unless you're talking about my stance here, in which case I'm 100% against mass deletion, and will haunt VS Admin in the afterlife if he doesn't change the policy. you just quoted me about my analogy of the post deletions being like a crumbling foundations, and defined the word contribution in your post (sorry I'm on mobile, kind of a pain to link things) Ah, no ...... The definition of the word contribution was me making a general point, and not at all relevant to your good self. (scatty of me) It was a bit like thinking of something useful and wanting to put it somewhere, so you can consider yourself special that I chose you ha ha.
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Kami
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Posts: 40,064
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Kami
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kamiyakaoru
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 16:17:07 GMT -8
you just quoted me about my analogy of the post deletions being like a crumbling foundations, and defined the word contribution in your post (sorry I'm on mobile, kind of a pain to link things) Ah, no ...... The definition of the word contribution was me making a general point, and not at all relevant to your good self. (scatty of me) It was a bit like thinking of something useful and wanting to put it somewhere, so you can consider yourself special that I chose you ha ha. (rofl) lmao ok. Well gee golly wiz!
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inherit
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188910
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Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
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Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Apr 3, 2016 16:19:50 GMT -8
Kami , you are, indeed, someone who would respect intellectual property. I know and appreciate that.
It is a very fine line for RPG forums. As a "General Board", although conversations become "stilted" and it's obvious something has been deleted, it's not vital to format or the lifeblood of our forum.
I really don't see an easy answer that would both make the forum creator and the story creator happy in a "deletion" situation.
But I do think if intellectual property rights were left to an admin, what would happen with photography forums, or creative writing forums, or art based forums? Would anyone join if they didn't have the right to remove their artistic creations?
I'm glad I don't have to make that call! But in the end, it is the legalities that will make policy. For all us ~ individual, member, admin, business, corporation, country ~ that's how it must be. Justice isn't always fair . . . or even just. It just follows the letter of the law.
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inherit
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -8
Ah, no ...... The definition of the word contribution was me making a general point, and not at all relevant to your good self. (scatty of me) It was a bit like thinking of something useful and wanting to put it somewhere, so you can consider yourself special that I chose you ha ha. lmao ok. Well gee golly wiz! Lol, I couldn't have said it better. I do like your avatar thing btw. You'll have to teach me how to do that some time.
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inherit
217348
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Jul 27, 2022 7:26:44 GMT -8
Lynx
5,790
January 2015
msg
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Post by Lynx on Apr 3, 2016 16:25:59 GMT -8
There must be about 4 separate requests on here in the last 24 hours from users of 'one' forum all requesting that their posts are deleted, and within minutes they get a response from staff that their request has been granted. I find that very concerning as a Proboards admin that the same thing could happen to any website. Now it's not my business 'why' they are requesting deletion as not my forum, but I'm at liberty to suggest that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there, with an agenda, as no way would that amount of members act on their own accord without prompt. Also, I find on this admin forum that often members from the same forum support each other in matters that are relating to Proboards admins, and think that each forum should only be allowed one voice / one vote on here, as it is an admin support forum, and not a "Bring your mates to back your opinion up" forum. I'd like to humbly point out one small flaw here. You're only looking at this from one side of the coin. Is it not possible that all those people are requesting mass post deletions on that particular forum because of administration there? I'm not saying this is the case, as I don't belong to that forum, but the possibility exists that this could be the reason. Whether it is or not, we may never know. I do know that if I belonged to a forum where administration was mean or iron-fisted or whatever that takes away from my enjoyment there, I'd probably ask to have all my posts mass deleted and then I'd delete my account there - as I wouldn't want anything that tied me to such a forum. Seeing all these recent requests for mass deletion does not imply that those users are in a collaboration. This may be the case, but one cannot state (and have it read as factual), and I quote: "...that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there..." because we don't know the facts of why these requests are being done. For all we know, it could be a mixture of circumstances. *shrug*
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inherit
187402
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 16:35:23 GMT -8
There must be about 4 separate requests on here in the last 24 hours from users of 'one' forum all requesting that their posts are deleted, and within minutes they get a response from staff that their request has been granted. I find that very concerning as a Proboards admin that the same thing could happen to any website. Now it's not my business 'why' they are requesting deletion as not my forum, but I'm at liberty to suggest that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there, with an agenda, as no way would that amount of members act on their own accord without prompt. Also, I find on this admin forum that often members from the same forum support each other in matters that are relating to Proboards admins, and think that each forum should only be allowed one voice / one vote on here, as it is an admin support forum, and not a "Bring your mates to back your opinion up" forum. I'd like to humbly point out one small flaw here. You're only looking at this from one side of the coin. Is it not possible that all those people are requesting mass post deletions on that particular forum because of administration there? I'm not saying this is the case, as I don't belong to that forum, but the possibility exists that this could be the reason. Whether it is or not, we may never know. I do know that if I belonged to a forum where administration was mean or iron-fisted or whatever that takes away from my enjoyment there, I'd probably ask to have all my posts mass deleted and then I'd delete my account there - as I wouldn't want anything that tied me to such a forum. Seeing all these recent requests for mass deletion does not imply that those users are in a collaboration. This may be the case, but one cannot state (and have it read as factual), and I quote: "...that clearly there is a collaboration occurring between members there..." because we don't know the facts of why these requests are being done. For all we know, it could be a mixture of circumstances. *shrug* I think my disclaimer didn't have the desired effect ...........
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Kami
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 16:36:14 GMT -8
Kami , you are, indeed, someone who would respect intellectual property. I know and appreciate that.
It is a very fine line for RPG forums. As a "General Board", although conversations become "stilted" and it's obvious something has been deleted, it's not vital to format or the lifeblood of our forum.
I really don't see an easy answer that would both make the forum creator and the story creator happy in a "deletion" situation.
But I do think if intellectual property rights were left to an admin, what would happen with photography forums, or creative writing forums, or art based forums? Would anyone join if they didn't have the right to remove their artistic creations?
I'm glad I don't have to make that call! But in the end, it is the legalities that will make policy. For all us ~ individual, member, admin, business, corporation, country ~ that's how it must be. Justice isn't always fair . . . or even just. It just follows the letter of the law. I could conceivably think of using the fair use clause; perhaps the posts themselves cannot be kept, but if in the cases where a member's contributions are vital to the running of the community, the essence of the information can be collected and spawned as a derivative work under a Creative Commons license. It would however require that administrators be allowed to be consulted regarding a member's deletions so they could see if this would be a road they'd need to take. All hypothetical ofc, as I am not a lawyer.
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Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
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156500
0
Offline
Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
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Post by Kami on Apr 3, 2016 16:37:29 GMT -8
lmao ok. Well gee golly wiz! Lol, I couldn't have said it better. I do like your avatar thing btw. You'll have to teach me how to do that some time. Talk to Brian, he coded it I just designed it xD
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inherit
224450
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Feb 7, 2017 11:46:28 GMT -8
blitzen
236
August 2015
blitzen
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Post by blitzen on Apr 3, 2016 16:37:56 GMT -8
Paying to own someone else's forum posts just causes all sorts of problems with copyright laws especially if the content of the post is art/poetry/etc. Saying "oh, you'll have to part with 50$/month (and that's for the lowest package) just for the privilege of not having members go AWOL on you and disrupting the forum" is downright wrong. And if they've still got that awful 6 month clause then that's 300$ siphoned from desperate admins.
Most couldn't even afford the 50$/month let alone 300$!To say to a admin of a small forum that they should go and join forums.net is absurd. Even some of the bigger forums wouldn't be able to afford it without some sort of donation drive - and there's no guarantee in that working either.I have seen mass deletions on various forums I've been on and it disrupts thread flow. The same thing happens with members who delete themselves - it makes the forum look bad. Not many other forum providers provide these features so why does proboards? To me it seems like they're just trying to encourage people to fork out for high priced privileges. I wholeheartedly agree with everything the OP has said in the opening post. Unless you got in while the getting was good and transferred to FDN for 9.99 a month and can remain there at 9.99 a month as i did. Even 9.99 is a lot for a small forum. Especially as they had (and probably still do) the 6 month thing where you're forced to fork out nearly $60 (plus whatever else they feel the need to charge you for; ad-free pv). You couldn't try before you buy and a lot of people didn't realise they had signed up for 6 months. But now, not a chance in hell that many can afford the extortionate prices. Funny how something that used to be under ten dollars a month is now quadruple that and then some. I also find it telling that the forum.net support forum is hidden from the rest of the us cheapskates. It's not good form to hide what could be potential issues that may dissuade others from signing up. I certainly would be interested in reading the support in there.
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Mar 23, 2016 19:15:19 GMT -8
Barkley
1,590
December 2012
avinalaff
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Post by Barkley on Apr 3, 2016 16:44:55 GMT -8
Lol, I couldn't have said it better. I do like your avatar thing btw. You'll have to teach me how to do that some time. Talk to Brian , he coded it I just designed it xD I like Brian's too. I hover over it on and off determined to make him fly.
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