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Post by Willow on Sept 19, 2016 16:11:50 GMT -8
I want to add in here. I have both sites under proboards and FDN. I was one of the people that signed on to FDN right at the start. One of my FDN sites is a RPG site the other is a fan site and RPG site. The latter being 2.5 years old now.
I upgraded to FDN on both sites because frankly I was annoyed at the content restrictions. And even though I have lost a lot of functionality for an RPG site, being able to have more control over the content is well worth it IMO and my members. I have had polls in both sites and nearly 100% of my members have stated they would NOT use the sites if we went back to PG-13 levels. (Over 300 members BTW).
I can also say that we have not had 100% uptime and the many times when we were down I had to contact support here because my FDN dashboard was not accessible. But that being said, and with a whole bunch of other annoyances that FDN has, I would NEVER go back to PB. Luckily my costs are still relatively reasonable as well.
One thing I think people don't understand about the biggest difference between PB and FDN is who the actual customer is. On FDN the person paying the monthly bill is the customer and FDN support will do almost anything to help you out. I have found their customer service to be AMAZING.
However on PB, we the people who use and create the forums are NOT the customer. The people paying for the ads are. And that is why there is restrictions especially with content. We get a great free service (using the forums) and in return we have to put up with all the restrictions. Getting this service for free, it seems a bit ingenious for us to complain about contest restrictions as we aren't paying for a darn thing. We are lucky to have such a great and welcoming site.
But at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves what hassle is more troubling? Content restrictions or paying a hefty monthly fee? In the end, we can only speak with our feet and wallets. There are still sites out there that offer great places to host no content restrictions RPG sites and a very reasonable rate. But I have found they lack the support and caring staff the PB/FDN has, which is why I have stuck it out here.
I hope in the future that PB/FDN can cater a model to RPG specific sites that are cost effective and have the freedom or the FDN side of the shop.
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Tommy Huynh
Coffee isn't my cup of tea.
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Post by Tommy Huynh on Sept 19, 2016 16:19:42 GMT -8
Speaking of migration, would it possible in the future, to have a "migration" option? Obviously this would be paid. For forums on proboards and are wishing to move to a different software, would this be possible?
edit: Nevermind, this would go against the PB ToS about user content licenses...
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Sept 19, 2016 16:20:04 GMT -8
Willow - I think my issue with your comparison at the moment is that you started onto FDN at the start. While I don't know what plan you bought, obviously (and you are under no obligation to tell me), for many hobby forum runners the current lowest price of $100/mo is just not feasible for a forum that may or may not see return. For those interested in content restriction being lifted, the window to get an affordable price on FDN has passed. I don't know if that's the OP's concern but that would be mine, would I be looking into FDN for content restriction issues.
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Post by Former Member on Sept 19, 2016 16:21:07 GMT -8
I've not looked into the paid hosting solution here so my experience is null and void. However what I do know about the paid service is it offers Ad free solutions? correct?.
I don't think people know how to take advantage of that! Internet marketing is difficult to professionals, let alone people running an RP forum as a hobby. So they have zero return for what they are paying in return for a subscription.
Content restrictions? adult content,reverse engineering, hacking? I'm not sure where the line is drawn here, most subjects are allowed on PB I would imagine, apart from the above.
Pb offer some of the best FREE services regarding customization and extensibility.
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Sept 19, 2016 16:24:02 GMT -8
I've not looked into the paid hosting solution here so my experience is null and void. However what I do know about the paid service is it offers Ad free solutions? correct?. I don't think people know how to take advantage of that! Internet marketing is difficult to professionals, let alone people running an RP forum as a hobby. So they have zero return for what they are paying in return for a subscription. Content restrictions? adult content,reverse engineering, hacking? I'm not sure where the line is drawn here, most subjects are allowed on PB I would imagine, apart from the above. Pb offer some of the best FREE services regarding customization and extensibility.
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Post by Former Member on Sept 19, 2016 16:29:03 GMT -8
I've not looked into the paid hosting solution here so my experience is null and void. However what I do know about the paid service is it offers Ad free solutions? correct?. I don't think people know how to take advantage of that! Internet marketing is difficult to professionals, let alone people running an RP forum as a hobby. So they have zero return for what they are paying in return for a subscription. Content restrictions? adult content,reverse engineering, hacking? I'm not sure where the line is drawn here, most subjects are allowed on PB I would imagine, apart from the above. Pb offer some of the best FREE services regarding customization and extensibility. So you are basically paying for priority support. Ok
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Post by Willow on Sept 19, 2016 16:32:08 GMT -8
Willow - I think my issue with your comparison at the moment is that you started onto FDN at the start. While I don't know what plan you bought, obviously (and you are under no obligation to tell me), for many hobby forum runners the current lowest price of $100/mo is just not feasible for a forum that may or may not see return. For those interested in content restriction being lifted, the window to get an affordable price on FDN has passed. I don't know if that's the OP's concern but that would be mine, would I be looking into FDN for content restriction issues. That is what I mean by voting with our feet and wallets. You have to ask yourself, if PB can't give you the service you want you may need to look elsewhere and I am sure PB would say the same thing. But I can tell you the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I don't know about hobby sites (as opposed to RPG site providers) but there are other of plenty services out there with very reasonable plans for RPG sites (less than 30 a month). I can also tell you most of them aren't nearly as nice and helpful as PB or FDN as far as communication and/or support goes. These guys here really are "The Tops". I trust the people here to treat me in a respectful and timely manner and which they do and then some! But I can say I could not afford the new price plans of FDN and if they said I had no choice I would have to leave. But to be fair, their business model for FDN is now aimed at businesses and not hobbyists and RPGers. And that was the the point of my last paragraph in my OP. I hope PB/FDN can find a middle ground for RPG/Hobbyists. Because they have said they are willing to pay for the service over and over again. But the bottom line is if PB/FDN can find a way to do it cost effectively even if it means creating a new label to run the service under.
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Sept 19, 2016 16:38:24 GMT -8
Willow - I think my issue with your comparison at the moment is that you started onto FDN at the start. While I don't know what plan you bought, obviously (and you are under no obligation to tell me), for many hobby forum runners the current lowest price of $100/mo is just not feasible for a forum that may or may not see return. For those interested in content restriction being lifted, the window to get an affordable price on FDN has passed. I don't know if that's the OP's concern but that would be mine, would I be looking into FDN for content restriction issues. That is what I mean by voting with our feet and wallets. You have to ask yourself, if PB can't give you the service you want you may need to look elsewhere and I am sure PB would say the same thing. But I can tell you the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I don't know about hobby sites (as opposed to RPG site providers) but there are other of plenty services out there with very reasonable plans for RPG sites (less than 30 a month). I can also tell you most of them aren't nearly as nice and helpful as PB or FDN as far as communication and/or support goes. These guys here really are "The Tops". I trust the people here to treat me in a respectful and timely manner and which they do and then some! But I can say I could not afford the new price plans of FDN and if they said I had no choice I would have to leave. But to be fair, their business model for FDN is now aimed at businesses and not hobbyists and RPGers. And that was the the point of my last paragraph in my OP. I hope PB/FDN can find a middle ground for RPG/Hobbyists. Because they have said they are willing to pay for the service over and over again. But the bottom line is if PB/FDN can find a way to do it cost effectively even if it means creating a new label to run the service under. for clarification, by hobby sites i mean "not business sites", to make a distinction between the professional business forums FDN is meant to cater to, versus hobbies like RP forums, etc.
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Tommy Huynh
Coffee isn't my cup of tea.
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Post by Tommy Huynh on Sept 19, 2016 16:58:44 GMT -8
So you are basically paying for priority support. Ok It's more than just that. There's a lot of features that are really beneficial to businesses. For example, we own the content. The staff literally cannot access my forum without my explicit permission granting them to do so. At any given time, I can also export a database of all forum content if I wish.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 19, 2016 17:17:58 GMT -8
As I remember it, FDN was touted as a business-oriented package from the beginning. Because it included relaxation of content restriction rules, quite a number of forums (particularly, the role-playing forums) took an immediate interest. That aspect was what they were looking for. The business-oriented aspects didn't really interest them. Some of those interested forums decided to make the change to FDN. That was, however, their decision. I don't remember it being the focus of ProBoards with regard to FDN.
Once those forums made the move many realized it wasn't all they'd hoped for because of the cost. That's understandable. As those forums migrated back there became fewer RPG forums on FDN and the business-oriented forums began to proliferate. It's a fact of life that any business must cater to its prime audience. That's what's being done here. The format originally intended for business use has turned out to be great for that demographic and not-so-great for the RPG demographic.
I'm no longer a role-player; however, I was at one time. Personally, I never saw the need to step beyond the PG-13 guidelines. Like Kami, I may be an "ol' fuddy-duddy" but it's my belief that a good role-player can role-play just as well within those guidelines as outside them. I can't imagine feeling the need to pay $50/month to enable that sort of content. That's just me, however.
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Kami
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Post by Kami on Sept 19, 2016 17:23:35 GMT -8
As I remember it, FDN was touted as a business-oriented package from the beginning. Because it included relaxation of content restriction rules, quite a number of forums (particularly, the role-playing forums) took an immediate interest. That aspect was what they were looking for. The business-oriented aspects didn't really interest them. Some of those interested forums decided to make the change to FDN. That was, however, their decision. I don't remember it being the focus of ProBoards with regard to FDN. Once those forums made the move many realized it wasn't all they'd hoped for because of the cost. That's understandable. As those forums migrated back there became fewer RPG forums on FDN and the business-oriented forums began to proliferate. It's a fact of life that any business must cater to its prime audience. That's what's being done here. The format originally intended for business use has turned out to be great for that demographic and not-so-great for the RPG demographic. I'm no longer a role-player; however, I was at one time. Personally, I never saw the need to step beyond the PG-13 guidelines. Like Kami, I may be an "ol' fuddy-duddy" but it's my belief that a good role-player can role-play just as well within those guidelines as outside them. I can't imagine feeling the need to pay $50/month to enable that sort of content. That's just me, however. fuddy duddies unite eyyyy
and even if FDN was originally marketed as a business model, it was still offered as a content restriction solution to many, many, many roleplayers on the support board who came inquiring about the tos / pg13 content. i've done it myself in the past, following the admins' lead on suggesting it. so, even if it were meant as a business model, in retrospect having it offered repeatedly as a solution for rpers interested in the content restriction freedom was probably an unwise move.
i think what's going on here is that while fdn may not be the solution rpers are looking for, other competing services do offer solutions and proboards / fdn rpers are hoping that proboards can come up with something so they can stay with a service and system they enjoy, rather than migrating to a competitor that can accommodate their needs.
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Post by Willow on Sept 19, 2016 17:24:23 GMT -8
As I remember it, FDN was touted as a business-oriented package from the beginning. Because it included relaxation of content restriction rules, quite a number of forums (particularly, the role-playing forums) took an immediate interest. That aspect was what they were looking for. The business-oriented aspects didn't really interest them. Some of those interested forums decided to make the change to FDN. That was, however, their decision. I don't remember it being the focus of ProBoards with regard to FDN. Once those forums made the move many realized it wasn't all they'd hoped for because of the cost. That's understandable. As those forums migrated back there became fewer RPG forums on FDN and the business-oriented forums began to proliferate. It's a fact of life that any business must cater to its prime audience. That's what's being done here. The format originally intended for business use has turned out to be great for that demographic and not-so-great for the RPG demographic. I'm no longer a role-player; however, I was at one time. Personally, I never saw the need to step beyond the PG-13 guidelines. Like Kami, I may be an "ol' fuddy-duddy" but it's my belief that a good role-player can role-play just as well within those guidelines as outside them. I can't imagine feeling the need to pay $50/month to enable that sort of content. That's just me, however. Originally FDN did advertise to hobbyists and businesses and to existing PB sites. And content is a big issue to many people (thus my multiple polls prove that.) There are MANY places you can get forums out there directed at RPG and Fan Sites with no ads and no content restrictions for as little as 10 USD a month. But like I have pointed out they are not are friendly or responsive as PG/FDN. Nor do they offer the technical help (addons/plugins) that PB/FDN does,
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Post by Sàm on Sept 19, 2016 17:31:06 GMT -8
I think Kami is getting where we're coming from. I've personally enjoyed the staff at ProBoards for several years; no one has disputed that they are friendly and helpful people. However, as Kami has pointed out, we came in as RPers because it was originally advertised to people like us.
I won't say more on that particularly because it's already been said. I get everything that's been said, I really do; stuff like this is costly, and that's why we have to pay for it. But that's just it, people have to be able to pay for it, and that includes the people who have been there from the start.
I think someone else said it, but ProBoards has grown because of a lot of reasons--not just RPers, but not just business-minded people. Catering to one group seems a little strange, and when you dive in and say that the other group wasn't paying it forward, I get that; but it's also strange that the general attitude so far has seemed to be, "We tried, and it didn't work."
Edit: I'm not being argumentative, so if it appears that I am, I am genuinely sorry. I only want to express my perspective and what I suspect is the perspective of some others.
Edit2: And again, I love ProBoards. I've been on one forum on a free server for nearly eight years. When they considered moving, I voted strongly against that. I've made several forums, joined several forums, and plan to do the same in the future. Whatever happens here doesn't change that. I'm not worried about that at all, nor have I implied that I was. Saying, "Well, x is good, so ignore y," is neither firm logic nor anything I'm interested in.
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mmhmm
The only people who don't make mistakes are those who aren't doing anything.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 19, 2016 17:47:43 GMT -8
As has been explained, efforts to create a format in which relaxed content could be offered as an option, either paid or free. Legal roadblocks were encountered that put that idea out of reach. I doubt those legal roadblocks have disappeared. Between those legal problems and the need to maintain a viable business plan I can understand why ProBoards has decided to go the way its going. Nobody wants the law down their backs and all businesses want to be able to continue to do business!
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Post by T.C. on Sept 19, 2016 17:51:29 GMT -8
All i can add to this subject is that i'm glad i migrated to FDN when it was an option and have the same price package. Oh, and thanks Andy for the phone call reminding me to update my payment method.
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