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The only people who don't make mistakes are those who aren't doing anything.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 20, 2016 11:24:04 GMT -8
I don't really understand those who so hated the transition from V4.5 to V5. Ours was the first forum to go to V5 and we really had very few problems. Mostly, it was more difficult for those who had little familiarity with the internet and forums who had trouble and helping them learn wasn't difficult. Of course, many were terrified initially but that's normal. People just don't like change. Overall, we found the transition to be pretty smooth.
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#e61919
Support Manager
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Michael
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wiseowl
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Post by Michael on Sept 20, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -8
I don't really understand those who so hated the transition from V4.5 to V5. Ours was the first forum to go to V5 and we really had very few problems. Mostly, it was more difficult for those who had little familiarity with the internet and forums who had trouble and helping them learn wasn't difficult. Of course, many were terrified initially but that's normal. People just don't like change. Overall, we found the transition to be pretty smooth. Change is scary for people. The differences between v4.5 and v5 are literally mostly quality of life changes. A few things moved around. Hopefully this slow transition from v5 to v6 lets people do it at their own pace so that they're just less scared of things looking different.
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♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
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January 2013
luv
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Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Sept 20, 2016 12:28:12 GMT -8
I definitely don't think it's about hating change. At least, not for my members.
Our members our bright, intelligent folks.
While I appreciated immensely what v5 brought forward, they saw no need.
And although we all understand ProBoards' must advance with the times, they feel if it works, stick with it.
Several wanted to migrate to other sites, but as I told them, if those sites are to remain viable, they also change with the times.
Most agreed; others did not.
But it certainly never came down to hating change, as they make change daily in their lives. That's far too simplistic a response.
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Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
#f35f71
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Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
40,064
July 2010
kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
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Post by Kami on Sept 20, 2016 12:39:22 GMT -8
I definitely don't think it's about hating change. At least, not for my members.
Our members our bright, intelligent folks.
While I appreciated immensely what v5 brought forward, they saw no need.
And although we all understand ProBoards' must advance with the times, they feel if it works, stick with it.
Several wanted to migrate to other sites, but as I told them, if those sites are to remain viable, they also change with the times.
Most agreed; others did not.
But it certainly never came down to hating change, as they make change daily in their lives. That's far too simplistic a response. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, the reality of the internet is that it's constantly evolving. As is ANY technology. Our air would be so full of smog, even worse than it is now, were advances in automobile technology not made. Because of our increasing integration as a society with the internet, things must grow and evolve. It's very fast paced, and I think many people are not intimidated so much by change but by the frequency and speed of these changes, especially if they didn't grow up during the computer / internet boom (but not exclusively, of course, my 90 year-old grandfather, may he rest in peace, was always on the forefront of technology).
You're absolutely right, of course, that if any site wants to remain relevant in today's market, they must adjust with the times. Some people will always have trouble with that, especially for something that isn't second nature to them (whether in terms of interest, skill, knowledge, and/or environment).
I think the problem with v5, from a member standpoint, is that things became a lot less obvious. Things that are now second nature for an interface design are vastly different from how sites used to be designed; a lot more dynamic content and less static content, and so on. While the changes to the front end from v4 to v5 weren't very many, they were drastic in terms of how they looked.
From an administrator perspective, I think the biggest problem was the lack of documentation. I don't think I'll ever stop saying that. The templates were all well and good and I've come to love them, and love the access to the CSS file; it's made my job a hell of a lot easier. But I'm just lucky I had the time to sit down and learn it all via trial and error.
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Brian
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smashmaster3
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Post by Brian on Sept 20, 2016 13:31:42 GMT -8
From an administrator perspective, I think the biggest problem was the lack of documentation. I don't think I'll ever stop saying that. The templates were all well and good and I've come to love them, and love the access to the CSS file; it's made my job a hell of a lot easier. But I'm just lucky I had the time to sit down and learn it all via trial and error. That's something that we agree was a failure with the launch of v5 and was a massive hindrance when it came to the transition. To this day I don't think I've worked harder providing support than I did during the initial release of v5. It was to the point where I was even taking it upon myself to convert individual forums' v4 skins into v5 themes when their admins came to support in dire need of assistance. That's also why I initially created the v4 theme for v5, though as time passed I settled on making it only match the appearance of the old theme just so it could remain as a novelty rather than a 1:1 replica of the HTML to make it function with v4 codes. I'm sure I've discussed this with you specifically before, but I'll say it again anyways for everyone else: We've definitely learned a lot of lessons from the v5 launch and aim to avoid repeating as many of the same mistakes as possible when it comes to the v6 transition. That's part of what spawned the idea of allowing a whole year and a half to fully transition. Should anything escape the foresight we gained from that experience it's my hope that any early adopters give us as much feedback as possible so that we can make the transition even smoother for those who aren't quite as ready. Given that a whole new help guide will once again need to be written in addition to the documentation for any changes in v6 I'll definitely have plenty of time to reflect upon both past failures and future suggestions when it comes to documenting everything. There's only so much I can personally do in my position, but I will always fight to prioritize dealing with an issue that's massively inconveniencing our user base.
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Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
#f35f71
156500
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Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
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kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
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Post by Kami on Sept 20, 2016 13:41:51 GMT -8
Yeah we've definitely discussed it one on one; I'm glad you guys agree that it was a mess tho and look forward to an improvement for the v6 transition (:
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Andy
New Member
Sales Consultant for Forums.net
Posts: 7
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Dec 8, 2016 11:08:52 GMT -8
Andy
Sales Consultant for Forums.net
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June 2016
andyinsales
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Post by Andy on Sept 20, 2016 13:43:43 GMT -8
All i can add to this subject is that i'm glad i migrated to FDN when it was an option and have the same price package. Oh, and thanks Andy for the phone call reminding me to update my payment method. You're welcome.
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Jan 26, 2013 13:30:48 GMT -8
♥ ℒʊ√ ♥
Clouds float into my life no longer to carry rain or usher storm but to add color to my sunset sky.
10,458
January 2013
luv
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Post by ♥ ℒʊ√ ♥ on Sept 20, 2016 13:59:51 GMT -8
We've definitely learned a lot of lessons from the v5 launch and aim to avoid repeating as many of the same mistakes as possible when it comes to the v6 transition. That's part of what spawned the idea of allowing a whole year and a half to fully transition. Should anything escape the foresight we gained from that experience it's my hope that any early adopters give us as much feedback as possible so that we can make the transition even smoother for those who aren't quite as ready. Brian , thank you for that well thought response. It epitomizes what makes ProBoards' support stand out from the rest.
Some of my members belong to other boards, on other hosts. Most are tech savvy. They understand the need for technology to move forward. I remember those days of rolling out v5. It actually was the first time I needed support's help since our forum began in 2009. I know how inundated support was. I was part of that "flood". And I give all of ProBoards' staff kudos for the way they handled that influx. It was my introduction to all of you . . . and I was both astounded at the service you all provided ~ including the plugin creators.
Kami , you are 100% right about the members' perspective. You've articulated the point succinctly.
And yes, having access to the CSS stylesheet was brilliant. For me, that alone, was well worth the transition to v5.
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T.C.
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Post by T.C. on Sept 20, 2016 14:59:24 GMT -8
All i can add to this subject is that i'm glad i migrated to FDN when it was an option and have the same price package. Oh, and thanks Andy for the phone call reminding me to update my payment method. You're welcome. Thanks for the clarification Brian, i was curious as to how a notification of a quote by you led me to a quote by Andy
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Brian
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Post by Brian on Sept 20, 2016 15:09:16 GMT -8
Thanks for the clarification Brian , i was curious as to how a notification of a quote by you led me to a quote by Andy LOL, I had no idea the notification system would do that. My bad.
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leif
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June 2011
akiglass
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Post by leif on Sept 20, 2016 15:46:50 GMT -8
Thanks for the clarification Brian , i was curious as to how a notification of a quote by you led me to a quote by Andy LOL, I had no idea the notification system would do that. My bad. I actually like this. On our RPG we often have claims threads. When we edit it it'd tell you who added you to the claims.
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Post by Hero Prinny on Sept 22, 2016 10:05:23 GMT -8
I'm about to sleep, so I am going to be focusing on my main concern. I love proboards, I greatly enjoy the experience I've had on this host. Still I'm concerned and I have something to ask, because I am one of those that likes to have answers and cover all my bases even if something never happens, and I'd like a concrete and plain answer. I'm glad to get an answer on the matter of whether there is a possibility we could ever be forced onto the newer plan prices, so thank you Tim Camara for that. It's a relief to have an answer on that. Still if my site, if we ever made the decision to stop paying for the plan we have, what would happen then? Since the migratory plan as I understand is no longer an obligatory extra you offer for forums.net, what would that mean for us? My site, we have a lot of content made during our time on forums.net. I understand content inappropriate for the TOS of the free proboards service would have to be dealt with. But if something was to happen and we were to decide to stop paying what we currently do, would be able to transfer all appropriate forum content back to a free forum? Is there any guarantee of that? Since that service is no longer one you guarantee in your current plans; would we be able for sure, to transfer back to a free forum? My concern first and foremost is my members, naturally. And it feels like there's been too much uncertainty, or I feel that way with the information I've gotten personally, with the change in plans offered. If you ever needed to move back to a free forum then I'm sure we could work something out with you. Would this be a guarantee? I would like that, being able to have that discussion, should we ever need to move back. I'd like to know we won't be at risk to lose so much, if circumstances ever meant we'd need to make such a move back. Because as said, when I came to look originally at the forums.net plan and all that, it was raised to me and posed as something viable for hobbyists too. I get things change, but when we started the plan ages ago, the migratory aspect was part of what we were told was possible for those paying. So admittedly I was made anxious to hear that no longer mention of it included in the forums.net info/plans. I was wondering if there is any way to get the info on the old plans too, since as said by leif , some months the bill is higher than expected. I understand its page views, I accepted that when I took on payment. Same as I can admit, I'm not entirely content with that measure of how to price a plan, considering a number of writers I know are in the habit of refreshing frequently when excited about replies they might get. I've done it when I've seen certain accounts online before. But that's me airing discontent and finally being outwardly honest about the paid option you offer. Likewise I don't care about white label, I care about providing my site's community with more freedom. As well as reducing anxiety for some too; since myself, I honestly get anxious writing something that might have potential to go near the line of what the usual TOS ratings allow at most. I rarely do it, but still every time I would worry then about if I could at all unintentionally go a little too far past the rating's boundary. Therefore dooming the site to a possible report, as I would see it, when I was in one of my more anxious and less logical mindsets. I'll admit, I hear a lot of progress or non-progress on things we've brought up with the forums.net support staff through leif . I'm very much more so a graphics than a tech side person on our site. I was disappointed some by the times we have brought up things to the support there and it's been difficult to get certain suggestions or issues considered/fixed. And likewise as Leif said, I'm incredibly pleased by regular proboards support, I would be happy to be lumped in under support provided here. No offence to forums.net support staff, we simply don't need that level of support for ourselves when your own staff is so capable, not to mention I feel like RPG forums are more evenly regarded here as a priority to consider. Possibly due partly to the shift in the paid plans now being marketed to businesses, not hobbyists. The support staff we deal with are very capable, yet naturally it feels like their priority is more so on business forums since that's now the majority of those using the paid service, I'm presuming. I understand and respect that your answer seems to be a no on another other sort of future paid plans being introduced, that are not aimed at businesses. Still I can't help but feel a little disappointed, since it means a future idea I had on a site will have to be on another host I'm not as familiar with, since the setting that inspired it was very much not PG rated. The only thing I was needing for that was the ability to have mature rated written content. But I fully accept you've had to change your forums.net plan because of a shift in the market you're aiming at solely now, and naturally because of profit. Just as I know you fully accept a number of RPG games have and may in future, instead be made on other hosts due to the lack of paid plans for hobbyists. So yes, excuse the long reply, but I had a lot to air that I didn't the other night, since I was just focusing on the one, main concern I had there. Thank you for the swift replies and caring address of my concerns regarding my forum's content and such.
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#e61919
Support Manager
154778
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Michael
19,550
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wiseowl
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Post by Michael on Sept 22, 2016 10:32:36 GMT -8
If you ever needed to move back to a free forum then I'm sure we could work something out with you. Would this be a guarantee? I would like that, being able to have that discussion, should we ever need to move back. I'd like to know we won't be at risk to lose so much, if circumstances ever meant we'd need to make such a move back. Because as said, when I came to look originally at the forums.net plan and all that, it was raised to me and posed as something viable for hobbyists too. I get things change, but when we started the plan ages ago, the migratory aspect was part of what we were told was possible for those paying. So admittedly I was made anxious to hear that no longer mention of it included in the forums.net info/plans. I was wondering if there is any way to get the info on the old plans too, since as said by leif , some months the bill is higher than expected. I understand its page views, I accepted that when I took on payment. Same as I can admit, I'm not entirely content with that measure of how to price a plan, considering a number of writers I know are in the habit of refreshing frequently when excited about replies they might get. I've done it when I've seen certain accounts online before. But that's me airing discontent and finally being outwardly honest about the paid option you offer. Likewise I don't care about white label, I care about providing my site's community with more freedom. As well as reducing anxiety for some too; since myself, I honestly get anxious writing something that might have potential to go near the line of what the usual TOS ratings allow at most. I rarely do it, but still every time I would worry then about if I could at all unintentionally go a little too far past the rating's boundary. Therefore dooming the site to a possible report, as I would see it, when I was in one of my more anxious and less logical mindsets. I'll admit, I hear a lot of progress or non-progress on things we've brought up with the forums.net support staff through leif . I'm very much more so a graphics than a tech side person on our site. I was disappointed some by the times we have brought up things to the support there and it's been difficult to get certain suggestions or issues considered/fixed. And likewise as Leif said, I'm incredibly pleased by regular proboards support, I would be happy to be lumped in under support provided here. No offence to forums.net support staff, we simply don't need that level of support for ourselves when your own staff is so capable, not to mention I feel like RPG forums are more evenly regarded here as a priority to consider. Possibly due partly to the shift in the paid plans now being marketed to businesses, not hobbyists. The support staff we deal with are very capable, yet naturally it feels like their priority is more so on business forums since that's now the majority of those using the paid service, I'm presuming. I understand and respect that your answer seems to be a no on another other sort of future paid plans being introduced, that are not aimed at businesses. Still I can't help but feel a little disappointed, since it means a future idea I had on a site will have to be on another host I'm not as familiar with, since the setting that inspired it was very much not PG rated. The only thing I was needing for that was the ability to have mature rated written content. But I fully accept you've had to change your forums.net plan because of a shift in the market you're aiming at solely now, and naturally because of profit. Just as I know you fully accept a number of RPG games have and may in future, instead be made on other hosts due to the lack of paid plans for hobbyists. So yes, excuse the long reply, but I had a lot to air that I didn't the other night, since I was just focusing on the one, main concern I had there. Thank you for the swift replies and caring address of my concerns regarding my forum's content and such. I personally guarantee it. We aren't at all in the habit of leaving our customers out in the cold and I would much rather put in extra work then have someone disappointed in our service. I know there have been feature requests from a lot of our FDN and PB customers (big and small) for a wide variety of things but we currently have everything on pause until v6 is released because v6 answers and fills the majority of those requests. We do listen and consider every request we receive from any customer, regardless of their size!
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Apr 30, 2013 15:32:12 GMT -8
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akiglass
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Post by leif on Aug 18, 2017 9:58:15 GMT -8
I just wanted to share, I, and others I know that use forums.net have recently over the past few months stopped. Forums.net is no longer worth it. In not so nice words "overpriced piece of junk". We've asked for several features over the last 3+ years on Forums.net. We have made so many support tickets, to get no resolutions of it. Forums.net doesn't care about Hobbyists anymore, which the original site promised.
Forums.net is a downgrade, not an upgrade. It is just a fancy, fewer features, version of ProBoards, without ads. It's not white label because ProBoards' coding is so iconic, everyone recognizes it anyway. You all have still continued to alienate is and treat us as if we were the red headed step child of ProBoards. Things we asked for, we were told you are all looking into, have gone years without updates from your team. Bugs we report are disgarded, because us, not being technical savvy like your team, doesn't matter to your team.
Thank you for the ride guys, but, unfortunately, forums.net is now eliminated as a prospect for our communities that want to go further. The price of this, we could easily have paid for a community 10x the size with any major paid forum software. ProBoards' Forums.Net services are not a feasible decision for small hobbyists.
<3 Good luck with it all. I just wanted to share, that we're out. We'd stick with the free version.
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Kami
Forum Cat
Posts: 40,064
Mini-Profile Theme: Kami's Mini-Profile
#f35f71
156500
0
Offline
Jul 24, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -8
Kami
40,064
July 2010
kamiyakaoru
Kami's Mini-Profile
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Post by Kami on Aug 18, 2017 10:24:30 GMT -8
I just wanted to share, I, and others I know that use forums.net have recently over the past few months stopped. Forums.net is no longer worth it. In not so nice words "overpriced piece of junk". We've asked for several features over the last 3+ years on Forums.net. We have made so many support tickets, to get no resolutions of it. Forums.net doesn't care about Hobbyists anymore, which the original site promised. Forums.net is a downgrade, not an upgrade. It is just a fancy, fewer features, version of ProBoards, without ads. It's not white label because ProBoards' coding is so iconic, everyone recognizes it anyway. You all have still continued to alienate is and treat us as if we were the red headed step child of ProBoards. Things we asked for, we were told you are all looking into, have gone years without updates from your team. Bugs we report are disgarded, because us, not being technical savvy like your team, doesn't matter to your team. Thank you for the ride guys, but, unfortunately, forums.net is now eliminated as a prospect for our communities that want to go further. The price of this, we could easily have paid for a community 10x the size with any major paid forum software. ProBoards' Forums.Net services are not a feasible decision for small hobbyists. <3 Good luck with it all. I just wanted to share, that we're out. We'd stick with the free version. I think though, in fairness to ProBoards, that they haven't touted it as a hobbyist option for many years at this point. I genuinely think the last time I heard that offered as anything other than their "business-oriented" platform was over two to three years ago, if not longer. There have been several posts (some in this thread as well) that have stated that the hobbyist version was not sustainable for PB and the price increase and general feature list was based on what businesses / corporations would use a forum for.
Which is not to say your concerns and experience aren't valid. I am also disappointed at the removal of the hobbyist version of FDN, and even with their willingness to work with the bits I need I don't think I can afford the price that was quoted to me in relation to how active my community is. But, at least for the last several years, they haven't touted it as anything other than a business-oriented platform.
I won't comment as far as the submitted tickets and general support experience for FDN though, since I have no personal experience with it.
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